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    An Unfortunate Announcement… with Hope

    Chousen-Kiss

    With the Koihime demo due to come out this weekend,  I have an unfortunate announcement to make. While it pains me to do so, it’s not entirely bad, so please hear me out until the end.

    Our localization of Koihime Musou has been largely funded by Nexton, the company to which BaseSon themselves belong. As such, a majority of the money earned by this game will be going directly back to them, the creators themselves. However, this means that they are also shouldering the majority of the costs associated with the release, a key one being voices. With its large array of around 25 different fully voiced characters, many of which are top-tier voice actors in the Japanese visual novel and anime industries including Norio Wakamoto (his role shown above), Takehito Koyasu, Midorikawa Hikaru, Motoyama Mina (role shown below), Aoyama Yukari, Hokuto Minami, Maki Izumi, Kazane, and far more (almost all, if not every voice actor for the game went on to play their respect role in the anime, though under a different name) – the costs involved in licensing the voices is great indeed. Being a partner of our company, Nexton looked at our current sales and made the decision that the cost of the voices was unfortunately too much for them given the prospects. As such, our release of Koihime will initially be sold without the voices, and likewise, the demo unvoiced as well.

    We realize what a shame this is, and as a show of apology we will be lowering the price of the game from our originally intended 44.95Euro to around 39.95Euro.

    However, all is not lost either. We at MangaGamer discussed this issue with Nexton at great length, and Nexton agreed with us that they would like to be able to release the game with voices as well if it’s at all possible. As such, we negotiated terms with Nexton and reached an agreement: if over 2,000 copies are sold, a patch will be released and  the voices WILL be added back in.

    So, in short, what does this mean for you, the fan?

    It means that if, say, every one of our forum users gets two or three friends to buy the game as well, then despite the original release being unvoiced, the voices will be added back in for everybody, but it all depends on YOU.

    We’ve done what we can, now the ball is in your court.

    imcg_1

    378 Responses to “An Unfortunate Announcement… with Hope”

    1. Hmm… well if you could make a counter to show exactly how many copies have sold, with a target counter of 2011 copies. Otherwise I don’t have a clue how it will fare…

      Also, is there a deadline that all the purchases have to be made by? Less than a year?

      • I don’t have access to real-time sales figures, but I *will* post updates on its progress as I learn them. And no, there’s no deadline.

        • Well, 2000+ copies isn’t too many given there is no deadline…
          Although, I doubt that we will hit the mark quickly!

          If the game reviews favorably, then I would be glad to try to see if I can get multiple people to buy it :D

        • On that note, could we get sales numbers for the other titles released? It’d be interesting to know, even a rough number would be great.

    2. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO… :c

      2000 copys is overkill man.

      • It’s interesting that you say 2000 copies is “overkill.” Do you realize how low that number is compared to other genres?

        While it’s true that visual novels, in general, sell a fraction of the amount other games do, it doesn’t mean that publishers are necessarily happy with those sales. 2,000 really isn’t all that much.

        Voiceover work is one of the more expensive aspects of developing a game, especially if you have big-name actors signed on for it.

    3. After thinking about this more…
      I’m sure the same thing will happen with future big tittles

      Da capo

      And with stuff by Key UnionShift etc..etc..

      • DC should be fine since it’s not THAT many voices. The issue with Koihime is both prominence AND scale.

        This isn’t to say that there won’t be problems as new studios may or may not have considered international rights in advance. Business in Japan is insane like that.

    4. This is truly dreadful news.

      How much of a chance does KoiHime fair in selling over 2000 copies? I don’t want to talk bad about your parent company but they don’t understand how this market works. You have to GIVE in order to create a market. It doesn’t pop up out of thin air.

      • The chance is very reasonable. As I said, it’s only 2-3 people per forum user, or 3-4 per twitter follower. This isn’t even counting any of the people who buy are games who are NOT active on either.

        But it really amounts to you guys. No, the market may not suddenly pop out of thin air, but if the market is not there, then the market is not there and business can’t be done either. From Nexton’s view, and from the costs involved, the current market is too small to justify it to them. At the same time, this is your chance to prove them completely and utterly wrong.

        Nexton has vehemently agreed to do everything in their power to ensure that the voices are restored if the game sells enough copies, so again, at this point, it’s up to people like you.

        • “Do everything in their power”? So it’s not actually a promise, it’s a definate maybe.

          Which means that you can meet the projected sales and then say “Well, they tried their best but it wasn’t possible. Sorry! Please buy our next game, this time we might give you the images if you buy it first!”

        • It is a promise. The ‘do everything in their power’ is more towards getting the patch that will reinsert the voices done as quickly as possible. If there are 2000 sales, you WILL get voices. And Nexton will do everything in their power to get the patch made as quickly as possible so that the delay between the goal and patch is as short as possible.

    5. In other words, everyone who buy the game have to wait ’till 2,000 copies are sold?
      So are you giving the chance to the ppl that don’t buy you’r games (aka piracy) take the chance to download the game on the net and wait for someone make an unofficial voice patch for free?
      (sarcasm mode = ON) Oh yeah, nice decision……….
      Mangagamer is sinking their own company taking the right choices……. (sarcasm mode = OFF)
      It’s that really the right choice?? We are in the 21st century!!! game without voices??? COME ON!!! what’s wrong with Mangagamer!! Mangagamer it’s really playing with fire.

      • Unfortunately, we’re not the ones who decided to release it unvoiced, Nexton, the creators and financers, did.

        We did what we could do–negotiate so that you all have the chance to get the voices in the official version.

        But, it all rests on you guys. The power is in your hands to prove that there’s a sustainable market for these products in the west.

      • But at least they can write in coherent English!

        Jabs aside, I do agree with you that this will add to piracy problems. Look at how upset anime fans get about the smallest changes and here MangaGamer is taking out a fundamental part of the game.

        That being said, voices are expensive. Really, really expensive.
        http://zepy.momotato.com/2010/04/21/eroge-seiyuu-costs/

        I’m not sure where I stand in this case. I was on the edge about Koihime and this is pushing me away from buying. It still depends on how good the demo is.

        • 1st. My Engrish suck, I know that ‘cos it’s not my primary language (btw I can talk 3 languages).

          2nd. I’m not saying that I’m not buying the game. If the game proves to be good enough to be purchased i’ll buy it.

          3rd. Yeah of course that the power it’s in our hands and you’r future as a company too.

    6. noes :'(

    7. Though Kohime Musou doesn’t really interest me at all (I don’t plan on buying or reading it), I wish you guys all the best in breaking the 2,000 sales mark.

    8. Well done Nexton, I hope you enjoy your 100 copy sales.

      This is one of the worst ideas I have ever had the displeasure of hearing about. Even if it succeeds, the other MG companies will likely pull this shit as well, making everything worse.
      Maybe I’ll buy it once someone makes an unofficial voice patch (which will likely happen within 24 hours of the release).
      Also, if the voices are so expensive, why was the price only lowered by 5 euros? I don’t think I’d be getting my money’s worth there.

      • Totally agree about the pricing. They could have at least lowered the prices by about ten or so.

      • The 45 euro price is not a price the voiced game would have ever sold at. It was a price tentatively set while the contract was still being negotiated. MangaGamer has known the game would not be voiced for a while and that price was likely intended for the unvoiced edition.

        The lowering of the price is probably something MG negotiated more recently. It is a reflection of MG trying to do good for you and soften the blow of the announcement.

        • If by “a while”, you mean “about two or three weeks when we had to test the demo and found it voiceless”, then yes, we’ve known for a while. The big reason for us delaying the news release was to try and strike the restoration deal with Nexton.

    9. One of the best parts about this game where the voice actors,take that out and you LOSE sales,I’m not sure how big a problem is adding the voices since it will result in less sales and the price will go down,it’s just sad to see such a great game as koihime be ruined since it’s a long game,many people don’t like just reading with no sound

    10. The only thing that people who want to buy Koihime can really do is to wait for the unofficial voice patch which I’m sure some friendly anon will have out the door within a few days.

      The market isn’t there for 2000 copies whichever way you slice it and you can bet the people who were on the fence about buying it will now just pirate it.

      A sad day indeed.

    11. Voices are a huge part of the experience of vns, especially of this game where the voices were one of the best parts of it.

      2000 sales will most certainly never be reached. What will happen is most people will hold off on their purchase to see if the game ever hits 2000, or they will pirate the game and get the unofficial voice pack.

    12. To be honest… 2000 is a bit too much?!
      At least make a voiced demo version. Maybe u will get more sells if u do it.
      If u make enough advertisements <- (~ 1400 sells)
      Because 39.95€ non voice is a bit crazy…
      And what about DC? Again 2000 sells?
      Maybe I will buy it…
      but if I don't get a non-voice game anymore then I will never buy anything from MG anymore.
      Try to speak with Nexton.
      Demo with voice would be a good start.
      Lower the price a bit… it is still too much.

      • As Ishaan mentioned before, how is 2,000 copies between the entire English speaking community ‘too much’ ‘outrageous’ or ‘overkill’ when a game like Retteclear can go gold or Agarest War can sell over a 100,000 copies on the Xbox in the US alone? 2,000 is a very small number that should be easily met in the gaming market. *Should* be.

        • Hint: the adult content in your games hurt you a lot more than you think it does.

        • Nexton -> deal on 2000 copies
          and then there’s still uncertainty..

          This should explain MG market -_-…

          Well, whatever the situation ==, I’ll still buy a copy.. That makes it 1 certain buyer /gg.. 1999 to go!

        • Not having it on Steam (major advertisement potential there), or selling in major chains like Gamestop or Best Buy are big reasons.

    13. You know someone is just going to rip the voices from the Japanese version and release a patch. I’ll still be buying it regardless though. And good luck with getting your 2000 copies sold, but I have a feeling this decision is just going to be used by people to justify pirating it.

      • That’s what I’m afraid off, but still there is also chance for unofficial patches.. Though Personally I also want to help MG, since they brought about english localisation, if everything goes well, I’m sure it will be far more worth it in future..

    14. Now that…is a bit unfair… i for once have been w8ing this game for ages now, from time it was first mentioned being released.
      And as for unvoiced version? NO THANK YOU… ill buy it just because chanse that it MIGHT get the voice patch… if it wont, its bye bye to this site for me.
      Unvoiced is utterly worthless to me and if it gets to that that patch doesnt come out. ill be VERY pissed…
      TBH would rather pay for overpriced voiced version, than unvoiced useless cheaper version.

    15. …holy cow… Answer me this seriously, did mangagamer ever got to sell 2000 copies of ONE game?
      Many people will not buy this one of the following reasons:

      First it’s a digital realease.
      Second there’s no voice-over anymore.
      I can already see kids downloading it, making free voice-patches for it.

      I’ll try to help out as much as I can. I will buy this game just as I did with Kira Kira. I’ll try to support you guys, but I’m just one man.

      Problem is many of the players who likes these games are not old enough to have their own salary so they can’t afford something like this.
      Even more players in the younger audience just pirate it, because they are lazy ******.

      I’m sad that actually a good game get’s ripped like this…
      I’ll roote for you guys anyway. Good luck.

    16. Just so we have an idea of the goal set here…
      How well do MangaGamer releases normally sell? (has any MangaGamer title ever even reached 2000 copies?)

    17. Honestly, not having voices doesn’t bother me that much. It’s nice to have, but hell, I can’t understand japanese anyways so it’s not that big of a deal. I mainly play these games for the story, not the sound (and often times I just play my own music while reading them).

      That said, I’d be very happy if this game reaches 2000 sales and a voice patch is added, but I won’t be that upset if it doesn’t. I’ve been looking forward to this game for a looooong time, so something like this is tiny in comparison to finally having the game released (and I’m very excited to see the demo).

      • Agree with you 100%. Someone on the internet that doesn’t blow their top when they hear a little bit of unpleasant news. I give your comment a thumbs up for being reasonable and understanding.

    18. This does beg the question- will future contracts be negotiated such that this problem will be mitigated in the future? “Royalties on foreign sales will be paid in full after X copies sold,” seems like a reasonable contract clause when the foreign market consists of such a minority.

      This is a frustrating slippery slope… I certainly don’t want to see it happening in the future. I’m sure there are some people who would intentionally not purchase Koihime just to make that statement.

      In any event, I’ll still be getting the game. I rather enjoyed FSN without voices, so I think I’ll manage this without voices. However, a lot of my decision lies in the desire to help legitimize lolicon 2d-ero in the west… or at very least help fend off the morons fighting against it.

      • The problem is getting any company, such as the voice acting agencies to agree to such a deal. Usually they want either an up-front sum that gets paid regardless of how well the game does and/or a percentage of each sale made. It all depends on how the agencies decide they want to handle it, and whether or not existing contracts state anything about ‘ports’ or other adaptations of the original work which they were only paid once for.

        That said, none of us wanted it to come to this either. If the numbers were there in the first place, it wouldn’t have.

    19. The question is has mangagamer ever sold 2000 copys for a single games.

    20. This is sad news. Guess I’ll just have to buy the game and let it collect dust till it might get a voice patch.

      I prefer voices because it keeps me more focused and it’s more fun to press on with storyline. The game just feels more “alive.”

    21. I’ll still buy Koihime Musou, though it’s going to be at the bottom of my to play list since I’ll wait things out till 2000 copies are sold (hopefully this will be before Mass Effect 3 and Persona 5 come out). I just hope those Con appearances got enough new customers.
      Just curious but how much have the well regarded titles like Shuffle, Soul Link, and Kira Kira sold? Have they managed to break that amount?

    22. Okay, someone had to do it so…
      Here’s my reaction:






      Download Video from YouTube | YouTube MP3 Converter
      | Advanced Video Downloader

    23. You are leaving us in the dark about this 2000 thing we want to know how possible it is or if you have sold 2000 copies of games before. I know I’d be more inclined to buy it and tell my friends to support it if I thought it was a reasonable goal but I really have no clue so speak up. Saying its a small number is NOT enough.

      • This statement resonates with my own qualms over this topic. Is this question being purposely avoided? C’mon MG, spill the beans.

        • If by purposely avoided, you mean “I’m not permitted to give out those numbers” then yes.

          Given our current sales, yes, it is a rough road. However, we have also been steadily expanding over the past few months regardless, and Koihime does have the advantage of an anime being out, so it is most certainly not an impossible nor an improbable hurdle to overcome.

          I think a better question would be, “How are games like this NOT selling 2000 copies easily?”

        • My apologies. I realize, MangaGamer not being a public corporation, you aren’t required to give your sales figures away; my emotions just got the better of me. I’ve been looking forward to this game. :P

        • Alright well I understand your guys situation about not being allowed to share those kind of details.
          I guess what I for one just wanted to hear is that your past games have done well enough to warrant a good chance at Koihime Musou making its goal.
          I know I’ll order it as soon as its up regardless and I’m just grateful they didn’t stop the game entirely, But I’d really like to see this 2000 goal happen not just for the voices but hopefully so we can get the sequels as well and I think that some people would want more incentive to spend this much on an “incomplete version”. Also to those who are angry about this and saying things like “I’m gonna pirate this now” or “I’m not buying from you guys anymore” Seriously grow up, you’re only hurting yourself and the chances of these great games coming out in the future acting like that, It Isn’t
          MangaGamers fault.

        • We running in circles here.The problem that this game will definetely wont sell 2000 copies is because people will get pissed off because they are paying for a incomplete game and pirates will easily get the voice patch in no time(and i already noticed a lot of angry buyers on the comments saying that will give up on mangagamer).I know that you guys lowered the price a little but thats just not enough,the buyers need some sort of compesation that pirates wont have.How about a extra game included with koihime, a old title or something like that while keeping the old price of koihime.This is extremely bad marketing and im sure you guys noticed by the feedback of your clients.People are starting to get paranoic about future titles having these same problems.Im very scared that the way things are going mangagamer will be shut down.I repeat again:the buyers need a compesation that pirates wont get,the price wont matter at all,you guys have to think in something else.

        • A lot of the new posters who have outright condemned this and claim they won’t buy, weren’t going to buy in the first place. They just wanted voices to go with their pirated version so they won’t have to wait for some kind Anon who’s a lot more tech proficient than them to do the work for them.

          Just about everyone here knows well enough that someone will come out with a voice patch to put the voices back into the legitimate version, long before the 2000th sale. Will the people who are banking on a voice patch buy the game once an unofficial voice patch is released? That’s the real question in the end.

        • Well, maybe because games like this are horribly overpriced.
          50,60 US$?
          Games like Assasins Creed 2, Dead Rising 2 are US$ 40, games like Left 4 Dead 2 are US$ 20.
          Madness, if you ask me…

        • Yes, prices go down after millions of units get sold. The starting MSRP for a lot of these games are in the 50-60 range…

        • Dead Rising 2 is not even released yet… and the price is US$ 40.

        • And Recettear started at $20, your point?

        • And the audio books for novels of lengths equivalent to our games run from $40-$100 without ever containing any pictures or music.

          Not to mention they’re under half-price for what the Japanese or any one importing the games would pay. Why does everyone think these prices are so horrible?

    24. I´m from Germany and i will buy it
      Koihime Musou is one of my favorite Visualnovel and a offical Patch is much better than as a Hack. I know this is the same but i like more to support Mangagamer as the Pirancy.

      Ps. Sry for my bad English. Writing is not my strength ^^

    25. This isn’t going to sell 2000 copies. If you want to convince us otherwise, make with the sales data. Otherwise we have no reason at all to believe it’ll happen.

      You’re asking us to take the risk here when for all we know no Mangagamer title has ever sold that much (and Koihime is unlikely to be the first!).

      Given that the whole issue is that they looked at your sales and went “woah, wait a second, way too low” doesn’t give me any reason to be hopeful.

      I’m not going to buy something in the distant hope that I’ll *eventually* get the desired product, rather than a crippled product.

      And the fact that this was not worked out and put into a contract and is only revealed this close to release is just insane. So for your next visual novel, might we find out that a couple routes got cut a month before launch because you weren’t going to sell enough?

    26. Another thing I’d like to know is how well do the story driven games sell vs. the sex romp games. I remember someone from JAST mentioning the sex romps sell better than the story driven games in their library and considering that KM is apparently more the latter…

      • I can’t publish detailed sales numbers without giving grounds to be fired, but I can say that, Soul Link aside (seriously people, wtf?), our story games trounce the heck out of our sex romps. But we have better story games than the competition does, which may be why.

        • Soul Link has rape in it. I can’t, in good conscience, buy a game that does. Even if it’s just the bad ends.

          Also, the fact that the anime was not received well may have had something to do with it.

      • I’d imagine sex romps sell better since they end up appealing to an audience outside of anime/manga. Visual novels are quite a fringe element in the western anime/manga fanbase.

    27. I think Koihime is very much in between the 2 genders, mayb it even swings more to the story side

    28. For all the people giving MG flack about this, consider this: we have at least a small chance of getting this cut content. Take a look at Yakuza 3 which had tons cut out of it and no chance of it being reapplied to the game as DLC.

    29. I’d Simply like to know the chances of this 2000 sales goal happening. People are obviously mad and I know I’m upset myself but I still intend to support this site because I think what they do is a great thing, so please can we have some clear answers here?

    30. According to encubed MG has 663 people on the forums so even if we each got 2-3 people we know to buy we’d still be short 2000.

    31. What I said earlier aside, I’ll do my part(even if it be an exercise in futility) to make that 2000 copies sold. I’ll be getting the game and recommending it to my cousin.

    32. Someone from MG, get on a proxy and post anonymously a few sales figures.

      Or answer yes or no: have many of the higher-end releases reached the 2000 mark?

      • Seeing as there are only a handful of employees that get on here to speak with us, I doubt a proxy would protect their identity(and thus, their job).

      • You’re implying that there are English speaking people from Manga Gamer that aren’t directly under Kouryuu’s thumb…

        • What I am implying is that I think the silence on the sales issue speaks for itself – they don’t have to say, so they don’t.

        • I was referring to Tsumachi’s desire to see an internal leak…

          What you’re commenting about, I agree with.

    33. I will say right now. Do not do this again. It will hurt you if you do. Followers are fickle people and get angry quickly.

      This will probably end up causing more pirating than usual but time will tell.

      I will still buy the game of course and I’ve managed to convince one other person to purchase it but no one else around me actually plays visual novels. I’ve tried (believe me).

      I know a few others who might be interested but I already know there is no way in hell they would pay for a game without voices.

      I was wondering if it would be allowed (legal) to give a demo of the game to the members of the anime club that I run (60 people with maybe 5-10 that might be interested). I might be able to convince a few people if they try the game out (it would be a lot easier if it had voices though).

      It would be nice if you could make the quo but I’m somewhat doubtful. Time will tell I guess.

      I’ll do my part though so good luck.

    34. Will it be possible to use the voice files from the original japanese game? I have a copy of the original and allthough I’m a fan of koihime musou, frankly I dunno what possessed me to buy the game in japanese years before

    35. Wait a sec… You guys over at MG and NEXTON take out a key feature that draws people in, and you’re expecting fans to want to buy it?

      What kind of logic is this? It’s the business’ job to convince the customer to buy their products, not paying customers themselves.

      There’s too many pirates out there, and this’ll only give them more reason to pirate your titles. Even if getting 2000 copies isn’t that unreasonable of a goal, the fact that you intend to remove content from the game will make it harder for paying customers to convince others to buy from you. I can’t effectively convince fans to buy it if they know they might not get what they want. Content removal is a deterrent, NOT AN INCENTIVE.

      Furthermore, how are we supposed to be assured that we’ll even get the patch if information such as sales tends to be tightly guarded?

    36. A few questions.
      First, how long would it take to make a voice patch if everything goes well? I mean we have yet to see or hear anything about Edelweiss’ patch and that was announced quite a while ago. Also considering how much time’s been put into getting KM’s system to work, it could take a while to put voices back in. I mean one would have to check for potential glitches in the audio, make sure that the right voices are in the right scenes (Exodus Guilty’s english release had this problem), make sure that the voices are being spoken by the right characters (another problem EG in english had). Also, this is from my own experience as an editor for a fan translation group, there’s a bit in the in game script that’s to make sure that the voices are spoken along with the written dialogue that if even one letter, number, or symbol gets messed with in the translation and editing process, the game will crash. I assume putting the voices back in will require fiddling with that, and if I’m right that’s probably going to be a long and tedious process especially if you consider KM’s length (the games my group worked on were children’s books in comparison).
      Second, should we just give up on ever seeing Shin Koihime Musou in english? Considering how much trouble there is in just getting voice acting in KM and that SKM is longer and has more characters and subsequently more VAs, things don’t seem to bode well for chances of an english release of SKM or its fan disc. Not to mention 2000 is what’s required to warrant voice acting, so who know’s how much to warrant a release of SMK. It could be in the tens of thousands.
      Third, I know some people may want to stone me for even suggesting this, but should a situation like this come up again, would dubbing be a better or cheaper alternative (no need to voice the ero scenes)?

      • The problem with Edelweiss’s patch, is that the re-translation section which I’m in charge of got pushed back because I had to work on Koihime and now Da Capo 2. That work will start again as soon as I finish with Da Capo 2. Once I actually get back to work, it shouldn’t take too long for Edelweiss–I’ll post updates on the twitter as I have been.

        Unfortunately, no, I’m not a programmer, so I couldn’t tell you an exact time, but we would work to get them patched in as quickly as we can as soon as the goal was met.

        I don’t know if you should give up, but I would say the sequel depends on this game. Shin Koihime Musou is about twice as long as Koihime Musou is, and will require probably three times as much work, with additional voice actors, and twice as many voiced lines. So yes, if Koihime Musou doesn’t sell well, then could you ever blame them if they decided not to localize any of the sequels? Who would want to invest more money on a series that didn’t turn a profit?

        • So is 2000 copies just breaking even? How much sold would be considered the bare minimum of profitable enough that SKM would be seriously considered?
          Also how high a priority would the voice patch be next to whatever games happen to be in the works at the time the sell goal is met? Edelweiss’ patch I understand, most people here have played the game so the demand for it isn’t THAT high (my main reason for inquiring about it is I am trying to introduce friends to eroge and Edelweiss would be a good start but having to tell them it has as many typoes as a paper typed via feet isn’t the best way to reccomend, and not mentioning it damages credibility). I know this is probably more the programming staff’s field, but considering that you mentioned a while ago that we can expect an RPG eroge from Circus sometime in the future, I’m sure that could tie some hands.

        • The programming line who works on scripting Nexton’s various games is separate from the line that works on say Overdrive’s and Circus’s, so work on Circus’s games wouldn’t affect Nexton’s work on the patch. Only other games from Nexton would have any possible affect on it’s priority, so while I can’t say for certain, I imagine it would get put pretty high on their priority list. I will guarantee you that I’ll do everything I can to make sure the patch gets placed on their schedule ASAP once the goal is met, and I’ll share what I know as I know it too.

          XD Because everyone deserves to hear Big Gay Norio Wakamoto and the Tsundere Goddess, Aoyama Yukari~<3!

    37. Just so I don’t come of as being snarky or anything in my posts, I should say this to the folks at MG. I’m grateful that you guys at least announced this, no doubt taking quite the financial risk considering some people’s (trying very hard not to put anything insultingin place of that) posts, so that we customers will know what we’re buying. You’ve also answered all our questions, including some that were downright insulting, which shows good customer service. With these two, you’ve done better than JAST with it’s handling of Kazoku Keikaku in which the censorship came as an unpleasant surprise to those of us who preordered (Demonbane is their one chance to regain my trust) and any questions we posted regarding the matter (and translation issues) were met with short and unclear answers. So to sum things up, thanks.
      And on a sidenote, yeah I know I’m posting alot but I’ve been looking forward to this game and this does have me pretty concerned. Especially considering a friend of mine made a good point on JAST’s forums:

      “Not that I mean to offend any fellow galge fans – I’m one too after all – but the business side of me is simply stunned. I had no idea the western eroge market was this horribly pathetic. Please tell me this is some sort of publicity stunt.

      To get voice acting they first have to sell 2000 copies? And because the game doesn’t come with voice acting right out the gates, they seriously do not have the confidence that it would sell at least 2000 copies, without getting on their hands and knees to beg western galge customers to buy it? And this is considered one of the upper tier franchises for eroge!

      That’s absolutely fucking terrible.

      The shittiest PC games that sell at Walmart in the bargain bins sell more than 2000 copies before they land in the shitty bargain bin, even when 99.99% of the population knew they were shitty.”

      • No, thank you, and those like you. I’ve been trying to help everyone realize the situation and explain as best as I can, and questions help a lot, unlike simple cries of ‘I won’t buy’ in far less polite terms.

        It’s not like we’re tying to hold the games hostage, no one is thinking that at all. But this is a business, and business have to profit in the end, or they can’t continue to do business. And I’ll admit, myself and a lot of my friends feel sentiments similar to your friend there. If even the crappiest of visual novels can sell well over 2,000 copies in Japan, then it should be very easy to sell far more than that for a game like Shuffle in the entire English Speaking market. That’s just not the case unfortunately.

        As for your question of ‘Is 2000 copies just breaking even?’–I can’t say for sure. A usual game like Shuffle, which is turning a profit, can do so at about half of that. However, Koihime is also 1.5 times longer, and with twice the Voice Actors of a usual game, a great deal of which are top-tier. I do suspect it’s an even number which is needed to turn a profit were the voices included though. So yes, I doubt SKM would be seriously considered without at least that many.

    38. Koihime Musou…
      Voices lost, will not be back,
      Cause the Nexton hates us flithy gaijins.

      Poor kouryuu…
      Damned and lost in saddest thoughts,
      Cause this will lead to uttermost fail.

      PWNED customers…
      “We won’t buy voiceless cutted crap…”.
      So it’s clear as an bright day –
      MG is nearly doomed.

      But there’s no sense crying at the Nexton’s bad deed,
      There are plenty of games to be played and read.
      And the fans are smart, patching work is at start,
      This won’t last long, as long we’re alive. ^_^

      Now seriously, I wish you luck, cause you’ll need it.

      • Nexton doesn’t hate westerners at all. On the contrary, they want to see this market expand and do well so they can bring more games to you and us. But when the day is done and over, Nexton is a business as well, and even things that grow on trees take money.

        Furthermore, the voices aren’t forever lost. You, the fans, have the opportunity to get them. The problem is just as they say in the final chapter of Higurashi–Unless everyone works together, it’ll never happen. Our hand is reaching out to you all. It’s right before you, you just need to grab it.

      • Well… If this succeed surely their views on westerner will be much better.

    39. Just curious, but how well advertised was KM at the conventions? Did anyone who came to the booth show any interest in it?

      • There were a lot who did, and I talked about it to a lot of different people at Otakon. As for AX, well, I was busy with other things at AX aside from our booth…

    40. I’m wondering if it’s at all possible to buy multiple copies of KM with one account, as I only have 2 VN playing friends.

      We’d probably be able to shell out for 10 or so copies between the 3 of us if it’s at all allowed.

    41. So any news when Koihime musou can be released?

      • With the additional testing, it’s likely to fall after our release of Da Capo 2, which should be near the end of this year, making it likely to be our first release of 2011.

        • Speaking of DCII, how’s that coming along? Any snags?

        • Actually, my part is moving along ahead of schedule at the moment, so yes, Da Capo II is moving along quite nicely.

        • I’m actually very excited about Da Capo 2 so that news is very exciting for me. That’s one of the very reasons that I’m happy to support you guys, because you bring games like that to the English market and as stated before you guys really do listen to the fans which is something I really admire about you guys. God forbid even if the Koihime Musou voice patch bombs you guy still have my vote.

    42. I’ll be one of those who will buy this and will wait if we can get the voices after all..

    43. Well, Sengoku Rance is unvoiced too, but it didn’t stop the game from getting huge popularity on the west.

    44. Will still buy it, considering the price will be cheaper than originally intended & we get the voice later if it sells well. If not I’m sure an unofficial voice patch will surface. So don’t really lose either way.

    45. Well Sengoukus characters were card board cut-outs and majority of the game was game play.

    46. I know how bad it is a game without a voice, but at least mangagamer and nexton promise us to deliver the patch by assumption that the games sell quite well (2000 is quite understatement of selling well anyway)so we as a fans, should support this rather than keep saying “nooo this is stupid move i wont buy this, 2000 is overkill man, blablabla, herpderpderp whine”

      Show them that we want the game by sale numbers, no one wants to invest in something that is not profitable, do you? not me ofcourse, but i hate to see this genre dying, seriously guys stop whining and start supporting

    47. (; ̄O ̄)no voices Damm Why God why… Well so buying the Game and Hope for good Sales is all we can do… Great :/ well Hope that an unofficell Patch get out soon After the Release Causen it will take a good While until the Sales will Be reached… IF they can Be reached

    48. Ah, I was never interested in this game from the start…but I feel bad about this :/ Maybe If the demo is good.
      Voices aren’t that important to me really. Higurashi was unvoiced, but I still consider it one of the greatest visual novels of all time.
      For now the only upcoming title I’m interested in is Da Capo II, which I’ll be buying even if the same problem occurs. I wish MG the best.

    49. HA! congratulations you just killed any hopes this game had, honestly now there are fan made translations of the original game fully voiced and half done NOW!

      Why on gods good earth would any one pay 40 Euro for a visual novel without voices and no garantie they will ever get them! When they can get the original fully translated fully voiced game for free in a few more months? i say again HA HA HA HA!

    50. Admittedly, I think I could understand why Koihime needs the minimum volume of sales, considering the scope and the number of name seiyuus (because there are Loads and Loads of Characters, according to TVtropes) as compared to other MG eroge. Frankly, I’ll buy, but since I’m anal about a moege having voices, I’ll get the unofficial voice patch.

    51. Do u plan to make a preorder option for Koihime. So we could expect a release with voices from the start ?

      • Unfortunately our web system doesn’t handle preorders. Sorry. =(

      • If they made a Pre-order option there’s a chance people would order a lot of them to meet the quota and then cancel at the last second and that would be bad.. Not that they are able to anyways.

    52. Wait a moment.. if we already archive 2000 copy sales above, we have to buy the voice patch again? If not, how Mangagamer deliver to us the complete version as we deserve our achievement for supporting Mangagamer? Can anyone please explain to me first…..Sorry for my bad English..

      • Just reading from the post here and what Kouryuu has already said, the voice patch will be free for EVERYONE who owns the game already once the 2000 sales are made. People who bought it early will get it, people who bought it afterwards will get it.

        Since Manga Gamer distributes digitally, they can easily replace the install file that you download for the game with an updated one containing the voices. I’m working purely off of speculation for this, but technologically, it can be done very easily and I would surprised if they don’t use this approach.

      • The Voice patch will be distributed, free of charge to all owners of the game, both past and present. You will not have to buy the voices separately, you will simply have to buy the game, and once the patch is issued, it will be applied to the game itself. You will pay no additional costs for the voices. That is also part of the reason the price was not made even lower–because everyone who buys the game will get the voices at no additional charge.

    53. Still, it sucks that the Euro is still stronger than the dollar. But it still beats importing this stuff. Eroge in japan seem to cost more than actual games (based on U.S prices for Mainstream VGs, may be different in Japan) so I really don’t see why people complain about the price of localized eroge. There is already a significant markdown for the fact that there is no physical copy. From like 90 bucks to 60 avg.

      • Being an otaku is a lot about being a collector and it’s hard to satisfy that collector’s mentality when you’re just collecting zeros and ones on a hard drive. While I certain empathize with the physical copy crowd, I find being able to appreciate the content of the game to be far more important.

        I’ll satisfy this collector’s mentality with copious amounts of PVC…

    54. @ Kouryuu & Mangagamer- You guys need to promote this game in order to even reach “2,000.” I have an idea….why not promote an “All Ages” version on Crunchyroll? They have decent amount of webtraffic and the anime of the respective game itself.

      http://www.crunchyroll.com/koihime
      http://www.crunchyroll.com/shin-koihime-musou

      • @ Kouryuu & Mangagamer- I know you guys have been turned down by various websites/companies who were unwilling to host your content(Stream for example), but you never know what could happen until you try. Besides, you guys created an “All Ages” page for that purpose, and Crunchyroll has some content that could be considered for Adults(Mitsuemoe, Queens Blade, Kanakon, etc).

        Therefore, this shouldn’t be a problem for you. Contact your boss/middleman/Nexton and get started on negotiations. I know advertising costs a lot(since you guys were advertising the Higurashi Visual Novels on the Anime News Network and Sankaku Complex), but it’ll definitely be worth it.

      • An all-ages version of the game or just an all-ages ad for the normal (adult) version?

        I second advertising on Crunchyroll. That way half the work is done already (since they are already interested in the franchise).

    55. Well, to minimize the cost, can the game at least get the character voices for the few main characters? I don’t think it’s necessary to have 25 different voices, but the few main ones will be nice. Otherwise, I guess subtitles will do…

      • It’s my understanding, from what I’ve read above, that Nexton’s acquiescence to MangaGamer’s offer was final(voices would be reimplemented whereupon the game sells 2000 copies).

    56. Cool. Voices are really not a deal breaker especially in this kind of market. i played the japanese version but there was to much going on for me to have any idea what was happening so I’m personally stoked about the fact that this is getting translated at all. cheers.

    57. I would like to support you guys but that’s just too expensive for an unvoiced copy that might not even get patched… sorry.

    58. It’s an absurd,the japanese xenophoby had sprawl above Mangagamer ¬¬

      • How does xenophobia have anything to do with this?

      • The voice acting costs too much money because there are too many characters. They don’t have the money because we are too few who buy the games. This is the real problem here.

        Nexton and Mangagamer have already invested much money just to have the game translated. That means they care about us. If they hated us, they wouldn’t even do this.

        • Exactly, other japanese eroge developer don’t want anything to do with their games being sold outside of Japan, let alone being translated, it’s just stay the hell away from our games and leave us alone.

          Since Nexton seem to at least care a little bit about their games being accesible to a wider audience outside of Japan, that’s hardly what I would call xenophobic.

    59. For the people who are complaining so much, why do you guys care so much about the voices? I know for a fact 95%+ of you (and thats generous) don’t speak or understand Japanese. It in no way affects the gameplay or story. And while you may not be getting a hard copy of the game…your paying LESS THAN HALF of what the Japanese paid. If the characters moaning is the only thing you really want, just play a bad hentai anime in the background while playing the game to achieve the same effect.

      • Do you watch subtitled anime? Would you mind if all the voices were cut out? It’s not like it would affect your understanding at all.

      • Shut up dumbass,without voices neither VN had feelings -.-

        Moderator: Yagami, another warning for you since you don’t seem to remember the first one…Act out again and I will ban your ass.

      • I find that a bit presumptuous of you; just because not all of us speak Japanese doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate it when it is in a game or subtitled anime. I can’t speak for everyone, but I think having voices adds to the realism of the game or anime more than mere written words can convey- they convey and carry the emotions of those speaking, whether it be glee, anger, fear, etc. Also, your implication that we non-Japanese speaking clientele only want the voices for the ero scenes is rather short sighted; if that is all we were after, why pay upwards 40 euros when we could find that type of stuff with a simple google search? We just want a complete game.

        • I didn’t mean to sound presumptuous. I know it’s nice to have the voices, but I don’t feel like it should be a big enough deal to not buy the game just because they aren’t there. It really shouldn’t be a key factor in someones decision to buy the game.

      • Yes I watch subtitled anime…so what? Anime is an animated television show that would be weird to not have audio. A visual novel on the other hand…it is first and foremost a novel that has been given visuals to enhance the experience. This VN is cool and has a game element involved and you get to choose certain things however its a “Visual Novel”. Voices are just bonus anyways and weren’t inherent in the beginnings of the VN industry to begin with.

        • Anime would be weird without voices? Probably because it would feel like something is missing?

          You’re just giving your idea of what a visual novel should be. Maybe it means something else to others. Saying voices aren’t important just because the industry started without them…that’s like saying color isn’t important to TV because TV started without it.

          Instead of trying to dismiss peoples’ complaints, perhaps you should just admit a irreconcilable difference in values? If I like vanilla ice cream best, you’re not going to convince me I like chocolate ice cream better no matter how long you argue with me.

        • You’re missing his reasoning. The voices haven’t been an integral part of visual novels, there are quite a few that didn’t start with voices and only had them later added as fluff. If anime at some point didn’t have voices, then your analogy would be more appropriate, but typical animation has always required vocal interaction along with visual stimulus while visual novels have not.

          You’re gonna need a better strawman to demonstrate your argument here…

        • Okay, how about comparing voiced visual novels to cars? To suddenly have a previously voiced game stripped of said voices is like sanding off the paint job of your car(assuming you have one). Can your car operate with its paint job sanded off? Yes. That said, would such it be as appealing to you as it was when it had its paint? Visual novels, nowadays are typically voiced, as you undoubtedly know. One could say that today’s consumers of the visual novel market expect, or take for granted, the voices. So of course, there are alot of people who are going to be miffed over this.

        • Don’t get me wrong, I understand they’re miffed, they have the right to be, but this is simply the nature of the beast. Nexton needs to know that this investment is potentially profitable for them to go all-in, it’s not an unreasonable request from them.

          The amount of people coming here to proclaim how they’re not going to buy, is entirely counterproductive to the problem. There’s not going to be voices if people don’t buy and people won’t buy if there aren’t voices; do you see the conundrum? What people are overlooking is the bigger picture: if people don’t buy, there will be less incentive to get future investments. If you think this will somehow sink Manga Gamer, keep in mind that they have been sitting on some god-awful translated games for the better part of two years before things got ‘good,’ and they still made it through.

          Just to expand on your car analogy, people who pay for second-hand cars usually pay less than their original value and a terrible paint-job isn’t exactly uncommon.
          And I would argue that voices in visual novels isn’t a given as MahouYo is going to be voiceless.

        • This is a reply to Gaudy6523: well, I agree with you. It is a conundrum. People holding off on buying or not buying it until(if) the voice patch is released or not buying it at all won’t do anything but hurt the chances of other high quality visual novels being localized. I am aware there are still visual novels being made without voice, but my car analogy was just meant to be applied to this particular instance – a product having something being removed as opposed to a product not having it in the first place. Far as I know, though, you can’t really buy a car without some sort of paint job on it(used or otherwise), so my analogy really isn’t a perfect example. Just to be clear, I’m not defending those who would not buy this game just because it won’t initially have voices; I’m was originally just trying to open the eyes of magusdm to how others could be seeing this.

        • Strawman? I suggest you look up the usage of the term. Or maybe just explain yourself without the cute shorthand.

          In any case, you’re not going to convince me that I should do without voice in my game that was supposed to have voice. I could watch anime without voice (or sound), I could watch TV in black and white, I could potentially do without a lot of the things I take for granted. Does that mean I will? No.

          I should qualify that I’m not being (overly) belligerent about this. While the tone of Kouryuu’s message pisses me off, I understand the situation. I’ll still support this game–once my expectations are met as Joe Consumer. If MG does it themselves, then great. If a hacker does it first, that’s also fine–at which point you can add me to the 2000.

          The amusing thing about this situation is that I bet many of the “supportive” fans here won’t even play/finish the game until a voice patch is released. Not quite hypocrisy (unless you’re arguing that voices aren’t important), but certainly ironic.

      • I’m with you on this. Besides it wasn’t that long ago that the majority of JRPGs to come out in English had zero or very little voice acting. To name a few: Final Fantasies 7-9 and Tactics(and 1, 2, 4 and 6 if you count the rereleases), Suikoden 1-3, Wild Arms 1-3, Xenogears, Vanguard Bandits, Legend of Dragoon, Dark Cloud, Vandal Hearts, Arc the Lad 1-3, and Shadow Hearts and they’re all considered good games. What’s wrong with using your imaginations a little?
        And before you slap me with the “old man” label (how do you measure otaku and gamer years if twenties and thirties is considered old?) let me point out that even now games without voice acting are enjoyed. Just look at the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda series, and the rise in popularity of indie games. Heck, Utawarerumono had no voice acting and everyone loved it.
        Overall I’m just saying that while I hope we get voice acting in the game someday, the situation isn’t that bad. Bear in mind the Tales games that came out in the US had no voice acting to the skits until Legendia came out and no one complained.
        Another thing to bear in mind is this. MG has been very forthcoming about all this. Would you rather they had said nothing about this until right after release, giving us an unpleasant surprise like JAST did with Kazoku Keikaku (if that happens with Demonbane nothing will contain my rage)? At least MG’s shown better consideration for their customers, and this shows we can at least trust them to be honest about their products.

        • I dont’ play games twice (unless I have multiple paths in which case I’ll skip what I’ve already completed.)

          I don’t like playing games without voice when I know there should be voice.

          I also can’t stand American dub, but love the Japanese dubs. As such most jrpgs with American dubs that I can’t get a redub for have sat in the pile of PS2 games never to be played again. Why? I don’t like playing with no voice, but I can’t stand playing with American voice.

          I don’t mind part voiced, or no voiced games, however there’s a big difference between playing Season of Sakura or a DS game and playing a long origonally full voiced VN. I have other things to do and whilst I don’t care enough to rage I also don’t care enough to buy a game I wont play.

          I come from an era when games barely had sound at all (vic 24/Amstrad) and pre 3d graphics, and pre multi colour screens (I had a green on green screen.) However I don’t think I’d appreciate that in a game now days for any longer then an hour.

          I’ve bought a lot of titles from MG (kirakira,kirakira CC, Edeilweise, Edeilweise bonus disk, De Capo, Shuffle, Suika AS), I wont be getting this though, not until it gets voice, and if it doesn’t get voice – oh well, no great loss.

          Looks like my next erogame purchase is going to be Demonbane.

        • You know, you just get it and then get the voices from a few anons. There shouldn’t be any problems. That way, you wouldn’t screw everyone else over lol.

        • Wait, you mean I can combine my two number 1 hobbies, making other people waaahhhh and saving money in one go?

          woohoo

      • The thing is that Koihime Musou is supposedly a moege, and thus for a moege, moe moe voices are very important.

    60. One good way to advertise for KM would be to contact some online game reviewers who have no problem with eroge. They have some kind of an audience, and since at this point no publicity is bad publicity, this could be a good way of advertising. I can name 3 and here they are:

      PhantomZwei (this guy’s reviewed quite a few english released eroge including YMK, Kanon, and Kazoku Keikaku, he’s also reviewed Ever 17. His reviews while a little short are thorugh enough analysis.):
      http://www.youtube.com/user/PhantomZwei#p/a

      Benzaie (yeah, his reviews of 18+ games have all been joke reviews, but then again if KM seems to be a screwball comedy themed game so a humorous review may help. Benzaie’s also one of the older site members on TGWTG so he has a good enough fan base that would probably check the game review out just for that. He also lives in Europe, somewhere in France, so he might be easier to approach):
      http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/benzaie/gf

      3) Game Heroes (like Benzaie their reviews of 18+ games are joke reviews. They have some fanbase though so a review from them may be worth it)
      http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/gameheroes/ao

      I was considering suggesting Spoony as he also doesn’t seem to mind adult content, but he’s very picky about anything he reviews and as a result we see more of his dislikes (which include District 9, Persona 3 (he loved 4 though), Avatar (though even I admit it’s an overrated movie), The Expendables, and pretty much every Final Fantasy game exept 12 ). Basically if you want to approach him, do so at your own risk (though if you ever acquire the license to a horror themed game like something from Black Cyc’s lineup that would be up his alley)

    61. Hmm.
      The concept in Koihime has always interested me, but as usual the ero turns me off from buying it. Usually I wouldn’t buy that on principle.

      Still, I really want to support MG, and there haven’t been many titles lately where I can do that… well, I’m kind of on the fence about this for now. We’ll see.

    62. I will buy it because I want to support you.

      But I have a question : If I understand, the patch will be free but can we access to the full version for free too ?

      I will buy it but I won’t play it without voices so I won’t install it until the patch release so I prefer to install a full version instead of a truncated version and a patch.

    63. I’m honest enough to admit this is a big disappointment. I certainly hope the voices are released in some form or another.

    64. That’s bulls***. You can forget me buying this then.

      Enjoy going bankrupt.

    65. Well I know 2 people who were looking forward to this bar me, and one of their lines is “I’m not paying for an incomplete game – they can —- off.”

      The other one was “errr I’ll play wow instead”

      I’d expect that to be the responce of over 50% of the people that were contemplating buying it.

      I think he sums it up best with;

      “The fact of the matter is there’s no market for it, and what little market there is really doesn’t appreciate things like getting a ****** “lite” version of the game”

      To be honest I don’t know if I’ll bother buying it now, it’s slipped below playing FFXIV and Ressetear for things to do with my time. I rarely play games twice so I either wait and see if the game gets voiced or I don’t play it. It’s a shame, but hey it’s not my loss.

      So I suppose that’s 3 lost sales. Bummer. I understand the reasoning, but it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    66. “What’s this? Some daring business stunt?” is my first impression after seeing this news.
      This stunt is only for boosting sales.
      I believe people at Nexton and MG aren’t that stupid to just cut off the voice and hoping it to sell well. Cutting the voice means cutting the sales, might as well drop the whole project rather than sold only 100 copies (which don’t cover even the licensing fees, not to mention generating any income).
      If people at MG are so sure that the game will sell more that 2000 and so sure that the real question is “why this game won’t reach 2000″ rather than “will this game reach 2000″, why this whole drama then?

      “We haven’t generated enough income. Time to press the buyers for more sales! Might as well tell them to bring their family, friend, and pet to buy this thing”

      • I think your not comprehending the situation. Getting the voice actors is probably pretty expensive. If MG doesn’t sell 2000 copies then Nexton will probably end up in the negative on the project if they spent the money necessary to give MG the voices. I sincerely doubt that they intentionally did this just to try and drive sales.

        • http://zepy.momotato.com/2010/04/21/eroge-seiyuu-costs/

          The average game has about…5-7 voiced roles? Koihime is sitting around 25, so somewhere between 3-5x the standard royalties need to be paid out just for the voice acting, add onto that the price to redo the game engine and localization…

          Yea, I’d say they’re making a pretty big investment here, at least more than the norm…

        • I actually just did a recount:there are 31 voiced characters in the game, and only 3 voice actors who actually pulled double roles, so actually 28 different VAs. I thought there was a little more doubling up.

          For comparison: Da Capo 2 and Soul Link both had only 10 voiced characters (after counting all the side-characters). The biggest difference is that Da Capo 2 only has 6 main Heroines, Soul Link had 4, and Koihime essentially has 25.

    67. I believe the reason why games like this don´t sell 2000 packs easily could be a cultural matter. Many players don´t even know what is a novel =/ I’m sure that if I post “what is a graphic novel” on all forums I know 90% will not know the answer.

      Also I never really seen marketing about those games anywere.

      I think a good place to sell those games outside Nihon would be São Paulo – Brazil, where the biggest japanese colony is and they also have a good Otaku comunity.

    68. Has MG thought of temporarily having an expensive version WITH voices? Surely there’s a price point that can make up the cost of voicing.

      I bring this up in response to what “Matt_D” said about people going all “F U” to a so-called ‘incomplete’ game.

      • There’s an idea. But still, it may encounter the same problem – people holding off on buying it until the price drops once enough are sold.

      • For me, it’s a value issue. I won’t buy a game just because it has voice. I also won’t NOT buy a game just because it doesn’t have voice (though voice removal incurs a far higher penalty). If they priced the game right I’d still buy it without voice. If they priced the game wrong, I still wouldn’t buy it even if it had voice.

        • How about two different versions? The currently planned release of the voiceless, but reduced priced version and a markedly higher priced, but voiced version? Blah… that could make piracy worse. Oh well, it’s nothing more than a pipe-dream anyway – the deal with Nexton sounded final.

        • Thing we have to remember about Koi-Hime is that one of its main selling points is the “25 voiced characters” and high quality voice acting.

          It’s a quintessential element of the origonal Japanese release.

    69. Considering Nexton/Baseson has more than just the KM games in terms of quality titles, then I’d say it’s worth taking the chance of buying in hopes of being able to beat the 2000 copy mark. They even have a couple of dark themed titles, both of which look pretty good, which would be a way to satisfy demand for games of the dark genre that have a good story.
      Here’s another thing to consider. KM is regarded as a top tier eroge, or very close to the top, in Japan. If we can break this 2000 copies mark, this could very well get the attention of other eroge companies who arecurious but wary of taking a chance with english releases. Remember Age and Frontwing and that bit with them and the cons? If word gets out to them that KM sold enough to make at least a modest profit, then they may decide to let MG license their games. If their games do well, word could very well travel to other companies and gain their interest. Those of you who want games from companies like Key, Cyc-soft, Innocent Grey, Liar Soft, and Akabesoft2 could get your wish. Heck KM selling well might get Navel to think “Maybe we should give these guys the benefit of the doubt and give them Oretsuba or one of the Shuffle! spinoffs instead of waiting for Shuffle! and Soul Link to sell a bit more”.
      My point is this: Is buying a voiceless KM in hopes of getting voice acting later a gamble? Yes, but think about what we potentially have to gain vs. what we have to lose (39.95 Euros isn’t THAT much, heck Da Capo and Suika are more expensive; new console and PC games are more expensive).

    70. I’m quite optimistic about an unofficial voice patch being made, so I plan to buy this as soon as one shows up. However, what I’m not optimistic about is this sales goal being reached anytime soon after release. If anything, this whole development will only give more incentive for many to pirate it. I can only hope other developers don’t try the same thing in the future.

    71. You’re marketing this game through your website and blog – that is, to people who are already interested and knowledgeable about the product. You appealed to our interest in marketing this item, instead of utilizing your own funding. Now you’re making us a coercive offer and suggesting WE go out and find you more consumers, if we want what you originally promoted. It looks like we’re being taken advantage of.

      If this is the licensor’s fault, then tell him to eat his damned translation and gargle bleach if it goes down rough. Consumers avoid buying from companies that treat them this way. The same thing goes for the cost. Visual Novels will remain unpopular with consumers and unavailing to investors while developers think they can charge $105 for the full product.
      The licensor invested the money into this project, so get contentious and protect your longterm business. Tell Nexton you won’t let them jerk around your customers and trash your reputation.

      • I agree with you on one point – it ISN’T our job to market MG games.

        I am curious as to where you got that $105 figure.

        • Probably from this:

          http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=570065&gc=gc

          真・恋姫†無双~乙女繚乱☆三国志演義~
          ブランド: BaseSon (このブランドの作品一覧)
          価格: 10,290円 (税抜\9,800円)
          発売日: 2008/12/26
          メディア: DVD-ROM 2枚組
          JANコード: 4995669409003
          品番: BAS00

        • $105 is the price for anything decent over at erogeshop.com. Amazon.jp usually lists a similar price before the discount. SKM, for instance, is ¥6948 at Amazon.jp, marked down from ¥9,240. SKM starts at $105 at erogeshop.

          VN developers seem to think this ¥9,240/$105 number is the price point. Perhaps they perceive in their customers that “collector” mentality one poster alluded to.

          Anyone who has played a good VN can see what a poor business choice that is. They don’t need to sell to specialized collectors. VNs are GREAT products because they can combine and match the enjoyable aspects of every other form of media entertainment. (except 3D?) Since they can do pretty much anything, VNs would sell exceptionally well if they were priced and marketed like other media. It’s an industry waiting to happen. Instead, these developers without rudimentary business sense sell to the otaku, “collectors”, and Japanese kids who still look for PS2 releases. And if they’re feeling nice, they offer to sell you the completed product in exchange for free marketing and a guaranteed return on their investment…

    72. Just curious, but assuming we break the 2000 copy mark, will Nexton give us the benefit of the doubt should Shin Koihime Musou be licensed?

      • Yeah right now I’m more concerned about the backlash of this affecting the possible translation of SKM then getting the voices for KM. We know we are getting KM at least and if we do get SKM I really don’t want to see this happen again since SKM is a much much larger game.

    73. To be quite honest, this really doesn’t surprise me all that much. BaseSON has made many bad decisions that have pissed off the Japanese fanbase in the past. One of the main ones is that for all the Koihime+Musou animes, you can choose between censored TV airings WITH chibi characters (those were in the game, btw) or uncensored DVD/BD versions with NO chibi characters. Both the engine and storyline on the Shin Koihime+Musou game were severely lacking and 2ch expressed much disappointement in this, too. This back-pedalling ‘OH-SHIT-WE’RE-GONNA-LOSE-LOTS-AND-LOTS-OF-YEN’ knee-jerk reaction on the part of BaseSON’s licensing front when they presumedly already said something when they first went into contract negotiations (I don’t know this for certain, just so you guys know…) is pretty much just like the other decisions they’ve made in the past.

      I personally think that Mangagamers was put inbetween a rock and a hard place on this. However, like somebody already said, it’s not our job to market their products. Mangagamers needs to market this and their other games better. It would shock and amaze me if SHUFFLE!, probably one of their best selling games (I bought it), sold more than 1000 or 1500 copies, but that’s just an educated guess based on talking to various people who are most likely in the position to know (no, it wasn’t any of the two staff members that have been posting in these comments and don’t take my words as fact, either). That said, you guys (Managamers) have a tough row to hoe. There /will/ be some /jp/ anon or anons who will port the voices from the jap game to this game, so either way, we’ll get the voices, so that’s not the issue. The issue is, it seems that Mangagamers invested a shitton of resources into a license contract that either was non-existent or partially-existent. Guys, this is bad business practice. Get all parts of the contract up front and if the other party re-negs, then you have some legal resource to fall back on. Otherwise, you’ll end up with egg on your face begging the customers “PLEASE BUY OUR STUFF EVEN THOUGH IT’S NOT WHAT WE INITALLY TOLD YOU, BUT WE DON’T KNOW HOW TO NEGOTIATE CONTRACTS.”

      I liked the first Koihime+Musou game, it was good. The second one was kinda meh. I hope K+M sells well, because Mangagamers has stood firm on the no-censorship issue, which is a really good thing.

      Anyway, I’ll end my tl;dr now…

      • From what I understand of MG’s business model, MG is just a Western “front” for the companies. There’s no licensing or fees involved–if anything, the developer is giving money to the MG project to translate and sell the game for them. If there is a contract, it’s probably extremely informal compared to what localization companies normally deal with (due to it all being basically internal).

        • Oh god, I hope not… That would mean Mangagamers is betting the bank on a handshake and a pat on the back. That’s REALLY awful business practice, unless you’re a direct subsidiary of said company, and I don’t think Mangagamers falls in this category.

        • MG isn’t so much a company as a “project”, from what’s been explained. It’s basically an endeavor that the various developers involved pitched together to fund. Just think of Mangagamer as Nexton et al English branch. Or perhaps a company whose shareholders are the developers whose games are being translated.

        • Erm… Are you talking as an employee or just from what you’ve heard? B/c I’d rather not get a bunch of speculation from somebody who’s not employed by them. Either that or point me to a web page where it explains all this in detail.

        • I’m talking from employee statements. These statements are in no way organized however–you can do an Internet search if you want, but I’ll let you do the digging.

    74. i for one u guys should just buy the game and support it for the squeal can come out for us English players

      • I love you.

      • Thanks for the demo, now awaiting installation

        • Say, I’ve seen this Oikawa guy somewhere before. It was in a hentai OVA called Harukoi Otome. I noticed it was from the same artist wwhich was why I checked it out. Was that a prequel to KM?

        • It’s not really related, but there are a few references between Harukoi Otome and Koihime Musou, as HO came right before KM. The school, St. Francesca Academy, is where the main character of KM comes from, and there’s various other little references around the school too.

        • Yup. Koihime Musou is a Spin-off of Harukoi Otome, which has actually just now started seeing translation work on it.

          To give you an analogy, Koihime Musou: Harukoi Otome:: Nanoha : Triangle Hearts.

          You don’t need to have played Harukoi Otome at all to understand or enjoy any of Koihime, but there is a thread of connection.

        • We’re getting Harukoi Otome too! I love you guys!! (makes a move to glomp kouryuu (must look very disturbing since I’m male)

          So just curious, which game takes place first?

        • Technically speaking, Harukoi Otome Takes place first, since Harukoi Otome is when men like Kazuto and Oikawa are first welcomed into St. Francessca. That said, you could probably place Koihime’s occurrence anywhere along Harukoi Otome from the middle to the end, or after, it’s hard to say.

          The connection between the two games is quite thin (other than staff).

        • I don”t recall anyone saying were getting Harukoi otome..

        • Just curious, but how different is HO the game from the OVA version?

        • I haven’t seen the OVA yet, but the game is just as long as Koihime in terms of text.

    75. Oh dear, you’re releasing at about the same time as Deus Ex Human Revolution, FEAR 3, and Dragon Age 2. Also you’re not very far from Gears of War 3, Marvel Vs Capcom 3, and Crysis 2 in terms of release.
      We may not see that voice patch for a while now…

    76. here i was still hoping for fall release

    77. Okay from what I’ve played so far of the demo, I can safely say this game is still plently good without any voice acting and should be well worth its price when it comes out. The characters are still plenty charming so far (seriously I can just imagine I’m playing a Playstation era game with little trouble and use my imagination for voices) and I’m liking the story better than I expected; it’s almost like the reverse Fushigi Yugi so far (I just hope there’s no mass character death at the end like Fushigi Yugi). Looks like I’ll have to save so I won’t have to choose between this and Dragon Age 2, it looks like it’ll be worth it.

    78. this game way better now i understand much of it and it still good without the voices

    79. I realize that this might not be high on your priority list, but, is there any other way that fans can support your effort without buying the game? What I mean is that, most women like myself aren’t interested in H-games, but, some would be more than willing to pay for the artwork, whether it be production related or a quick sketch on a shikishi board. I’m sure there’s other MangaGamer followers who would be interested too.

      I don’t know if Newton/BaseSon would be value this kind of contribution, but, I didn’t think it could hurt to ask.

      • Unfortunately, there isn’t many other options at the moment other than our All-Ages catalog. However, there has been talk of hosting art-books and the like under the comics section once we actually start working with that.

        • I’d rather have the opportunity to purchase the sketches that were used for production. I know that most of these are destroyed, simply because space comes at a premium in Japan. I’d pay to have the sketches sent to the US, or I could pick up them up on my next trip.

          I’d be nice if some of these companies offered us the ability to buy production artwork or shikishi through MangaGamer. Most of the beginning artists earn around $15K/year, so, it’d be a nice chance to directly support the artists and buy some really nice artwork at the same time.

          I know you’re super overwhelmed right now, Kouryuu, but, if you could ever work out something with these companies, I’d be interested. I know I mentioned on the Anime Expo topic that I really enjoyed purchasing shikishi at your booth(I probably was your #1 shikishi buyer… ^_^’), so I’d be interested in buying more artwork directly from them.

          Thanks and keep up the great work!

        • Let us know regarding any information on that. Art-books and other items are interesting selections to choose from.

    80. sounds like a good one even with out voice actors you put it up i’ll buy

    81. O,o Feb 28, 2011 ohh come on~~~~ ; ;
      When i read u won´t release it this month i hoped for October but Febuary >.< noooooooooooo why the hell of a delay …

      • We’re still aiming for late January, but we kinda figured that you guys would appreciate having the thing playtested vs. going out with stupid gaffes.

        • Yup. With the few things we did find from testing the demo, we wanted the full-game to get a good testing as well to catch anything me and sloan may have missed after staring at those walls of text for forever. @_@

          Also, that gives us time to actually get some advertising for the game out in the meanwhile–which we’re working on arranging for right now.

    82. Wow end of Feb release, that sucks. No voice now a massive delay, are they trying to kill interest on purpose?

      Now if I could forget about it until near release that would be nice.

    83. That’s bad but hey, there’s hope.

      I really enjoyed Fate/stay night without voices so if I like the demo I will still consider buying the full game.
      For me voices isn’t an element that makes a game totally top or flop. :) I just hate to get incomplete games but as there’s a fair chance to receive the last piece for free I see no reason to call out the armageddon like others here.

    84. I have try the demo already. The demo is very good although didn’t have any character’s voice. Too bad have to wait until next year. I surely buy this game when it’s release..

    85. Couple small errors in the demo, though nothing major was quite enjoyable. Looking forward to the full game. Almost 6 months til release, well marketed and a fully polished script one would expect with that much time.

    86. gus, i hope u realise all this “im not buying” isn’t gonna improve the situation.. u guys are only encouraging the VN industry in the west to crumble.. if we don’t support by buying, mangagamer will probably give up as well and we all wouldn’t want that :(

      • Then buy it buddy if you liked it.
        I played the demo. It was good but without voice it isn’t very interesting. Test it yourself.

    87. I’ve completed the demo. Loved it.

      I can now safely say, that I will be certainly buying the game when it comes out, voiced or not (I just happen to reaaaaaly love the characters and their design, which also holds true for other Baseon games).

      I was initially planning to not buy it (until voices are patched in (by any means)), but that’s ’cause I though it was getting released within a month or two, since I’ve already spent my “entertainment” budget for the next 3 months.

      If it’s february though, I should be able to afford it. Though only 1 copy. Much as I would like to support future translations, I’m just a student with a very limited budget.

    88. Alright just played threw the demo
      I can’t help but feel somethings missing when I know it is
      I can’t get it out of my mind and made it some what weird..

    89. I go d/l the demo. Koihime is something HUGE. 2k shud be easy to reach if western otaku pretend to be what they are. BTW I wonder what kind of licensing contract nexton built -seems they suck at dealing. Anyway, me speaking without all informations… but me speaking as music pro label owner. Licensing is my job (^_^)

      • Yea, dunno though, I have the impression from Sankakucomplex that most western otaku are leechers that claim to be moralistic pirates saying that they are doing it for the principle (either official stuff is not “100% accurate to the jap”, or its censored, or they changed it.

        • The responses on Sankaku Complex disgust me. The wretched pirates there are the worst kind of thieves–those who believe their activity is morally justified. They hover like vultures waiting for games to be released in English, so they can swoop in and grab the games for free, all the while patting themselves on the back with smug satisfaction. Absolutely sickening.

          Moralistic pirates? Riiiight.

        • I at least found comfort in that there a good number of posters defending MG, not as much as the trolls, but considering how one sided commenters tend to be in their articles, it was a pleasant surprise.

    90. Huh. And I was actually looking forward to this one.

      I’ll pass. I won’t let you hold the voices hostage, you’ll just do it again. No point in buying a crippled product.

      • Well, technically its Nexton/BaseSON that are holding the voices back. B/C there are like three times as many voice actors in this eroge than the others mangagamer has sold. Cuz apparently, lots of well-known anime seiyuus are expensive. (Norio Wakomoto ftw lolololol, still that pic scares me)

      • We’re not holding the voices hostage, and we’ve no desire to do it again (though if we bring on new companies who haven’t prearranged international rights, we can’t promise anything).

        Sometimes, all we can do is make the best out of a bad situation, and sometimes, fanboy rage only proves how little some people actually know about what’s going on.

        • Haha well said. I know I personally am buying the game not for the voices(still not to confident we will make 2k) but I’m buying it for the sequel.

        • If you’re getting this just for Shin Koihime+Musou, you’re going to be sadly disappointed. The Shin K+M anime was better than teh Shin K+M game. It was the opposite for this original one. The game is much better than the anime. Also the latest incarnation Otome-something-or-the-other (can’t be assed to look it up) is basically a fandisc w/ practically no yuri content whatsoever.

        • Really? Because the idea of working for different factions sounds interesting, at least the idea of working for Sousou. Kind of like if you were sucked into the Iliad and thought “Hey, I kinda feel sorry for the Trojans, let’s see what happens if I support them with my knowledge of the legend.”

        • Here;s a look at SKM. It looks and sounds nice to me, from what I could decifer:

          http://haremunokami.blogspot.com/2008/12/pc-shin-koihime-musou-first-intuition.html

        • From everything I’ve gathered, SKM IS better than KM–it’s an even larger game with more routes and an improved battle system. The metascore on Erogamescape is near 80–that’s up there with H-RPGs like Tenkuu no Yumina and some Alicesoft and Eushully games. The VNDB metascore for SKM is also higher than KM.
          http://vndb.org/v1967
          http://vndb.org/v369

        • If you found any rage in that then it explains a lot of how your business perception works and the state of things.

          And you are holding it hostage, that’s what it means when you withold something for ransom.

        • Or the fact that a good percentage of fanboy rage is rage out of a sense of entitlement. No offense. What would you want mangagamer do, not release a project they wasted a years worth of manpower on or release it for a cheaper price and hope they could get the voice later.

    91. I’m currently downloading the demo. Anyway, voiced or not at the release, with the game being released in February, I should be able to buy it when the game is out. Now the only thing that I pray for is that the fact that the game is not voiced until it reaches the 2000 copies sold won’t have the effect of people waiting that it is voiced again to buy it (it would be too bad if the game never gets voiced because people are waiting for the voices to be reimplemented before buying it, it would be kind of ironic ^^).

    92. Now I sure as hell not gonna buy this game. Are you crazy? To pay 40 bucks for a slide-show? Good thing I can order and play an original from Japan,even if its more enjoyable to play it in a language I know better…
      MangaGamer, after your “engrish” games and this inability in management now I consider you a dead company

      • Well, technically this was a 90 bucks when it came out and on eroge shop.
        On another note their translations have improved significantly since Edelweiss (which I admit was very bad), its not “Engrish”.

        • Well, technically it also came in a nice packaged box with a CD and some nice LE if you were lucky when it came out and on eroge shop as well.

        • Frankly, I may be different than others, but I don’t see the appeal of paying extra 40 bucks plus shipping for a box and CD. Though, if I was lucky enough admittedly to buy when released to get an artbook or other extras than yes, it would be worth it. But plain vanilla releases no.

        • Well, I can buy it for 58 euro WITH shipping…

    93. So the translation for koihime should be done for like a week or 2 from I read on twitter,i still can’t understand how testing can take 5-6 months

      • It’s probably either the gameplay element (no one wants a glitchy game) or the fact that they’re working on a game system different from the ones used for all the other previously released games

      • Translation and editing are done, but it all has to be manually placed into the engine (things like word wrap aren’t always automatic if you’re dealing with something designed for Japanese text), the English language graphics need to be finished, and the person doing the scripting work? He’s got to keep up with doing Nexton’s Japanese releases as well. Yes, they’ve been putting (at least some of) it in as we submit, but Koihime’s scripts are long as hell compared to, say, Da Capo 2, and the more text, the longer it takes to put in.

        That said, Overdrive games still have the longest frickin’ scripts I’ve seen so far. I love those guys, but damn it’s deflating to spend all day doing one of their scripts and the next day blowing through 25 in DC…

        • Overdrive? Does that mean we are getting another overdrive game. (is hopeful)

        • We’ll be releasing Overdrive’s latest game, Dear Drops, during 2011. Kouryuu will be translating it after he finishes the Edelweiss redo, which he should be dedicating his time to once DC2 is done.

        • Awesome I’m looking forward to that and what do you think about Da Capo 2, November or December-ish? At least before the year ends right?

        • December’s what we’re shooting for. We’re working on some final edits for it right now, then testing.

    94. I have realized that after playing for a while (after the hype), the voices bore me… and the game too. With any game.

    95. Btw, just to let you guys know, MG is taking a lot of flak on sankakucomplex. Then again, those guys are pretty bad anyways.

    96. In a way this could be beneficial for MG. One way or another, this news has attracted a lot of attention that it probably wouldn’t otherwise have got. I see a lot of people saying they won’t be held hostage etc and won’t be buying it, but also a lot of people (myself included) who feel they should do their part to support MG and future eroge translations.

      Although I can understand why people aren’t happy about the way this has turned out, from a consumer standpoint I don’t think you stand to lose a lot. As people have already mentioned, one way or another you’ll get voices. I won’t condone “piracy” but even if an official voice patch never comes out, someone will make an unofficial one. I can’t help but feel that the people who refuse to buy it are missing the point somewhat. Fair enough, don’t buy it if it doesn’t interest you in the first place, but I know for a fact that some people will pirate it+get full voices as well. And people who do that really have no right to complain about anything because more so than any “dodgy” practises by companies, they are killing this fragile industry.

      Personally, I don’t believe that English translated eroge is a lost cause as a market, but I DO believe that it’s a small enough one that every purchase DOES make a difference, and every person who pirates a VN instead of buying it when there are legitimate purchase options available is damaging the chances for future titles.

      I just think some people have entirely the wrong mentality.

    97. well this sucks… i didn’t know you guys only accept credit cards… and i don’t have one…

      plz take paypal too!

      and i also wish games get printed on cd :( i don’t have stable internet to download such large games

      • Paypal won’t deal with MG due to the adult content.

        As for physical copies, MG just doesn’t do that. (which is fine with me – no production or shipping fees go into the cost of the games).

      • Unfortunately Paypal refuses to be used for Adult Materials. You are, however, perfectly capable of going to your local store, purchasing a pre-paid Visa Debit Card, and using that to purchase games from our website.

      • They do accept debit cards you know.

        As for internet problems, try downloading using a library computer, their internet connections are good enough. I remember using my college library’s internet to download a game file to a USB (you could also take along an external hard drive and use that instead if there’s a nearby plug).

        • Yep, I could attest to that, Baruch has 3 M/Bs dl speed. FTW.

        • Downloading on a library computer is a terrible idea. You realize those connections are monitored right? Downloading loli on a library PC (or any public PC) is practically asking to be Handley’d. That’s how they caught Dwight Whorley:
          “Dwight Whorley was convicted under 18 U.S.C. 1466A for using a Virginia Employment Commission computer to receive “…obscene Japanese anime cartoons that graphically depicted prepubescent female children being forced to engage in genital-genital and oral-genital intercourse with adult males”
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Whorley#United_States

        • lol…. uh oh

        • Yeah, but I’m smart enough not to dl blatant loli. And anyways, I think Koihime Musou could be argued to have artistic value (its like a retelling of the romance of the three kingdoms right?) lol

        • You can easily argue that the game itself wouldn’t be prosecutable. But it could serve as “reasonable suspicion” to investigate you and find stuff that is (I hope you don’t use the Internet). And regardless, they could always arrest you first and sort it out later.

          If you want to use a public connection, go ahead. But you’re painting a target on your back.

      • thx for the responses guys
        if DarkFusion is correct i actually have a debit card so i guess that will work!

        i’m not sure if i can download at my college… i’ll check the public library soon..

        • If you have a poor/unstable connection, just use a download accelerator. That saves the download progress in case the connection is lost. Let it download long enough and it’ll eventually complete.

    98. It’s a shame that you weren’t able to get the voices straight away, and that some people are unfairly judging you because of it. However, I sincerely hope you’re able to break the 2000 sales required for a patch. Out of curiosity, is there a time limit on this at all?

      Admittedly, I’m not sure if I’ll get the game. The concept sounds good, but the pictures shown on the site look a little graphic for my liking, admittedly. I think I will download the demo however at some date, so I can decide for myself if the gameplay and the characters make up for the ero scenes.

      Please keep up the good work, MangaGamer!

      • I’ve not heard of any ‘deadline’ being mentioned previously, so I’d have to say no to there being a time limit.

      • As one whose played the demo, I can say that so far it seems the characters are charming enough at least the ones shown so far. Kanu’s pretty cool (though I can’t help but have the urge to say “Are you sure you’re not the least bit Arendish?” in some of the interactions with her (only makes sense if you’ve read David Eddigs’ Belgariad/Mallorean) and I find that Rinrin ‘s amusing. Also Kazuto’s pretty likable so far, he doesn’t come off as the typical nukige MC (the kind who mostly thinks of making whoopy and that’s basically his character). He also comes off as smart, responsible, and all around good natured. I reccomend giving this game the benefit of the doubt.

        As for the gameplay, I thought it was alright. I can see why it’s comparable to Suikoden’s, though it is a bit more complex while Suikoden’s was simple. I’ll admit the presentation of the battle system of KM is prettier, but I think Suikoden did a better job of it. Just look at this (now you’ll also see why it’s so easy for me to imagine KM as a Playstation era game):






        Download Video from YouTube | YouTube MP3 Converter
        | Advanced Video Downloader

      • I wouldn’t let the graphics on the site define the game for you. 2/4 of the Kira Kira ones are of H scenes, despite the fact the game itself is probably 95% story, 5% H.

        • ^_^;; Well, you have to show the Adult content for an adult game after all (though I’m a little miffed as I was under the impression there would be less of those shown on the main page).

          But yes, that game has plenty of story and the characters are great.

          Here’s some of the other images we had permission to use for the main page in addition to the Ryofu one I used for an earlier post, and the Kan’u one featured above:

          http://mangagamer.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/ecg_kan04e.jpg
          http://mangagamer.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/imb_go3.jpg
          http://mangagamer.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/imcg_20.jpg

        • The last one with the maids is cute, as is the one of Kan’u at the top. And yes, you would show adult content for an adult game :D. It may not interest me, but it does interest a lot of other people.

          Hopefully when I play the demo, that will win me over – I did enjoy the Suikoden games, after all, and gender swapped Three Kingdoms sounds like it has a lot of potential. I may also be able to convince a friend to buy it as well, who is… less of a prude than I when it comes to VNs.

          What is the player character like in this, anyway? Does he have any personality to him, or does he just relentlessly pursue the girls to satisfy his urges? I don’t think it’s the latter, considering how people mention the strength of the characters and the story, but I’d like to know regardless.

        • From what I’ve seen in the demo, he’s generally a likeable guy. Not really a chauvanist or a spineless coward. The description of him on the product page sums it up quite well.

        • The main character’s actually pretty cool. He’s mostly a regular guy, but he *is* a regular guy, if that makes sense. He’s kind, he takes responsibility for what he does, and he actually does work for the good of the people… … even if he is a shining example of a polygamist.

    99. I don’t buy these VN until it have voices,I don’t does these boycott because MangaGamer,so yet because fucking xenophobist Nexton as well ¬¬

      • Why do you say that nexton is Xenophobic? Are they not “supporting” (more or less) the project by not shuting it down and making it Japan-Only like Minori, Product.jp Yuzusoft are doing with their games?

      • Yagami, from the looks of things you haven’t bought any of their other releases either. You’re the last person who could be “boycotting” Koihime.
        Also, what Nexon is doing isn’t xenophobic at all, maybe you have completely wrong idea of the word?

        • Must have seen this guy use the word Xenophobic about 5 times already. Give it a rest. If you truely think that the reason behind all of this is xenophobia then there’s not a lot of hope for you.

        • English (obviously) not being his native language, it should be easy to figure out he doesn’t understand what xenophobia means. If Nexton were xenophobic they wouldn’t be involved in the MangaGamer project, period.

      • Wow, Nexton’s xenophobic. They certainly did a good job of hiding it until now. I mean Illusion was completely obvious while Nexton was so subtle in their licensing their games for english release so no one would notice until now.

        (drops sarcastic tone)
        Okay Arnold, you say it best:






        Download Video from YouTube | YouTube MP3 Converter
        | Advanced Video Downloader

    100. After playing the demo with no voice I must say I am disappointed. But I understand why MG has chosen (been forced into) this approach.

      I will be buying this game irrespective of what happens. Hopefully we can reach the 2k goal and get the voices back.

    101. Voice or without voice, it’s still great :) will purchase when the full version release XD

    102. Just tried the demo,kinda nice.
      But still boring without voice.
      Feel free to call me weeaboo or anything similar, but for me, VN that sells bishoujo like this must have voice (and not just “female only” voice).

    103. IF you don’t bother answering Kouryuu9.

      What is the top selling game of Manga Gamer and the number of copies it sold?

      • IF you wouldn’t mind bothering to read other posts, you would know that such information won’t be being made available.

        I’ll say it again, in hopes that in the future people won’t waste their time asking:

        MangaGamer = private corporation
        private corporation = doesn’t have to release sales figures

        • Herp, derp, of course they don’t. Private, closely held companies don’t have to do jack schitt if they don’t want to.

          However, having said that, usually companies wish to avoid this kind of bad publicity and will usually CHOOSE to do so, even if they don’t HAVE to.

          This furthers my personal biased opinion that there’s a very small chance that this game will sell 2000 copies, otherwise you guys would be saying “Hey! Look! SHUFFLE! sold 9235771667 copies! So you guys, THIS IS REALLY DO-ABLE!” However, after being in the business world for as long as I have been (and for those of you who know me, you know that I’ve been working for longer than a lot of these comment posters have been alive), you learn that you get more from what a company DOESN’T say rather than what it DOES say. And, Mangagamers, what you’re NOT saying is SCREAMING volumes.

          Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I can’t stand it when people hide behind the corporate party line. I don’t blame the people hiding behind it, b/c they really don’t have a good choice (tow the party line or be fired – not much of a choice, I understand that). What I would like is for Mangagamers to pony up and tell us what’s going on… REALLY. Yes, I know you don’t HAVE to, but there’s an important business concept known as “Goodwill”. It’s a very valuable intangible asset which is very hard to get and very easy to lose. You guys gained a shitton of it when you refused to cave in to stupid censorship and I applauded and still applaud you for that. However, said goodwill is on the edge of being lost by not being up-front. I’m not talking about sales figures or profit margins or markup or anything like that. Just Give us some ballpark figures. Hell you can even disclaimer it by saying “The following are only estimated figures based on sales as of X time period and don’t have any bearing on future sales.” etc. We’re not trying to be choosy beggars, since we’re actually paying cash for your stuff, we just want a bit more of the up-frontness that you guys seem to do well with in the past. When you’re up front with us, you’ll find that most of us are pretty easy dogs to hunt with.

        • I think MangaGamer was showing us some goodwill when they talked Nexton into at least giving us have a chance at those voices being added back in.
          Hearing some rough sales figures would be nice but, if their jobs are on the line, I’d say you’d be more likely to get struck by lightning while in a great white’s mouth.

        • Well, I can’t give you real sales numbers, but here’s the honest truth: Our sales figures are currently low enough that Nexton decided it was necessary to cut the voices and recoup their losses, despite knowing full well the antipathy that would bring. They would love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Without voices, Koihime needs to sell less than half of what we’re asking for to turn black, but with voices, it needs 2,000 sales or it’s still in the red.

          Meanwhile, the illegal downloads of our games and other visual novels consistently totals well into five digits. If even 10% of the people pirating our games actually paid for them, reaching 2,000 sales would be a walk in the park. But then again, if that were the case, then this problem wouldn’t have happened in the first place and you’d already have both Tick Tack and Really Really.

          I know you’re all probably sick of us saying thing about piracy, but that’s the truth. Money doesn’t grow on trees, and things that do grow on trees still cost money if you want to actually eat them. I, for one, would like to be able to have an apple with my lunch.

        • I like that apple analogy and I appreciate your honesty about the sales. Now that you have shown us some more goodwill, perhaps people on the fence will be more willing to consider adding some fruit to their diet.

        • It’s a shame. I’ll admit that I myself initially became aware of MG after finding a torrent of a VN of theirs (I won’t say which one), but after enjoying it so much and reading up a bit on MG I went and bought it legitimately. Yes. Bought it after I had already finished it and wasn’t playing it anymore.

          I will continue to support MG and buy any games they release that grab my interest. I can only hope that others do the same, or at the very least enough to keep them in business.

        • Now THIS is what I wanted to hear. Numbers and rational justification, not a cheap motivational speech that says it’s my job to market MG’s games. If licensing the voices doubles your production costs, and expected sales won’t even cover those costs, then it’s perfectly reasonable that you’re not releasing the game with voices. I don’t like it, but I can accept it–and appreciate your efforts to at least throw us a carrot.

          I really didn’t realize that the voices for this game were that expensive. You might’ve garnered more sympathy if you’d put the news in perspective like this to begin with. Congrats, you’ve given me something to defend you with.

        • >Meanwhile, the illegal downloads of our games and other visual novels consistently totals well into five digits. If even 10% of the people pirating our games actually paid for them, reaching 2,000 sales would be a walk in the park.

          You’re treading dangerously close to the ‘all pirates were potential customers so we lose $ on each copy’ argument there. And we all know that argument *never* succeeds.

          That being said, I feel you guys have been beating the wrong bush for too long. This inbetween niche of people who like games that have cute ‘moe’ characters are the most self-entitled, immature demographic of them all. At least with pure hard-core titles, you have people willing to pay for the means of getting off (I suspect your sex-romps do better on average than these ‘mushy’ games). And on the other spectrum, games without 10-year old moeblobs that don’t instantly turn off normal people and with a more ‘serious’ story would fare a much better chance at attracting people who actually take things seriously and be willing to pay for stuff.

        • Never thought that my questionament was gonna have this much repercussion.

          But anyway, thanks for answering Kouryuu9. I was already thinking of buying the game as soon i was released but now I am really gonna buy the game. Your efforts and sincerity moved me.

    104. i’ve some question for someone that know the original game.

      the game is like Sengoku Rance/Kichikuou Rance with a map to choose who we want to attack (maybe changing something in the story too) or the story is more linear?

      and more in general, in wich way the player can interact in the story? i’ve seen the dialogue phase where you can choose a girl to speak, and probably sometimes there will be some multiple choice during a dialogue. there are other methods that maybe are unlocked later?

      just because the demo made me pretty corious.
      i liked it really much, i think i’m gonna support you (anyway i never liked the voice in VN, always turn them off)

      PS: there are shortcut to select the formation or the attack? so that i have not to click every time with the mouse?

      • The game’s actually pretty linear overall. I don’t recall there being multiple choices, but I stopped playing the Japanese version after beating Yuan Shao… Err, Enshou. Too much text to go through without knowing Japanese. There’s a limit to the magical powers of contextual understanding.

      • To the best of my knowledge (been a while) the end of the game is decided by which of three main characters you finish out in the “off duty” interactions screen.

    105. I think this game is worth playin and thus worth buying with voices or without them. Lets hope the game will be sold 2000 times,its long , the CG look really nice not to mention the story and the characters.

    106. I’ll buy the game, I’ll play the game, and hopefully I’ll enjoy it as well, voiced or not.

    107. Urgh, the non-voiced portion was a hard pill to swallow, but having played the demo now I must say that my biggest problem is the February release date! Is that a firm date of release? or is there some flexibility in either direction? (preferably the “early release” direction.)

    108. Wohoo 31jan now letshope the release Date will keep moving until its in Oktober 2010 :p

    109. yahooo! just finished the trial after it released, lol and surprising that it change the full release in 31 Jan! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it’s getting better~

    110. I wish the pirates could at least this once help us by buying the game :) It is a game to be remembered.

    111. After going on Sankakucomplex again, I feel as though I’ll get a brain tumor if I keep reading their comments. It left a bad taste in my mouth and it feels like that most Eroge fans in the west are pirates or super-entitled “fans”.

    112. so gonna buy it

    113. wonder if we prove Bason wrong will thy give us the sequel

    114. The success of piracy is mainly due to the lack of a good legal offer.
      I give every month a lot of money to entertainment industry but I have to thank piracy.
      Piracy will be the cause of huge improvment in time (release faster) and in technology (ipod is more convenient than “discman”).
      Don’t forget we have no concurrency in this kind of industry and we know it’s a problem.

      What ! we can’t make money and rival with piracy ?
      Steve Jobs, itunes…

      I don’t have a lot of sympathy for eroge compagny (they don’t care about us).
      But I have a lot of sympathy for mangagamer (and jastusa) because they try their best for us in spite of the pressure from japanese.
      thanks a lot !

      So I repeat I will buy your non voiced game even if I will never play it until I get the voice patch or a full voiced version.

    115. Try to gather as many friends you can to buy this game , mangagamer tryes best for us and we should try best for them.

    116. I buy dis if I get moe Navel.

    117. Do mangagamer have any plan to translate clannad??

    118. Clannad would sell horribly lol
      People don’t buy games when they have a fan patch most of the m pirate it.

    119. I’m very sorry to say that I can’t buy it (underage), I have played eroges before but if they have been released officially in english I never pirate them and therefore I won’t be able to buy it.

    120. I have been thinking… The japanese Koihime musou has japanese voices right? WHy not simply rip them of and put to english version?

      • If Mangagamer does this, they will get sued into oblivion by the company who produces the voice acting.
        They need to pay for the voices, they already explained this to you.

    121. Beato get a credit card simple as that.
      If your parents think your buying this for porn slap them seriously.

    122. I believe knowingly aiding a minor to purchase pornography is considered a crime in most states in the US. Doing so (ex: by letting them borrow their credit card for the purchase) would subject his parents to legal liability.

    123. Considering anything with low sexual content in porn…
      Are you saying romance novels at the book store are porn?
      Cause you sure as hell can buy those at any age.

      Ironic because I’m a minor. and I’ll just say one thing I don’t buy these for sex I buy them for story.

    124. I’m simply speaking as the law would see it. Pornography is generally considered “graphic” in nature. For example, the Protect Act prosecutes only “visual depictions”. Therefore, text wouldn’t qualify.

      Note that the obscenity loopholes don’t apply in this instance, however–passing the Miller test (artistic, literary, social value) doesn’t justify exposing minors to graphic sexual acts. Different set of laws.

      It’s all rather silly, but somehow it’s believed we’re preserving societal values by forbidding minors access to porn. Oddly, it appears to be legal to have sex with a minor at 16 in most states, yet it’s illegal to show them porn until 18. Go figure.

      • Because it harms my child like eyes oh my!
        Or it will make me rape people
        YEAH!
        Conclusion most people think minors are stupid.

    125. had major fun playing the trail verison hope it comes out asap vioce actors or no

    126. US$ 52.11 x 2000 copy game = US$ 104220

      The main problem is the money. As long as someone have money to paid for the voice actress is OK.

      Three ways to solve this problem. (These idea is just my opinion, so you can igrone or listen it.)
      1. Ask rich people to paid ALL the bill.
      (If he/she agree…)
      2. MangaGamer had accidentally won the lottery.
      (Sounds impossible because need luck)
      3. MangaGamer had to saving money until can paid it.
      (If they doesn’t spent money to something useless)

      I’m looking forward this game next year, hope this game has voice ASAP.

      • Nah, wouldn’t work. MG has been asked to prove that there is a sustainable market for these games – getting the bill paid conveniently like in those options wouldn’t prove that the market can stay alive on its own.

        • Yeah, only hope there actually is a sustainable market here. Otherwise, MG would go the way of Hirameki Int.

    127. i wasn’t sure where to post this but the trial versions of Kira Kira, Suika and DC won’t work for me :{

    128. To those complaining about price: VN’s are a niche hobby, and those tend to be a little more expensive than regular items.

      It has always been that way…

    129. Will there be some sort of a “sale counter” or something to let the fans know exactly how many will have been sold or how many still need to be sold?

      At least then the fans won’t be sitting there wondering, “Have we reached 2000 yet?”

    130. Sadly they can’t tell us that information.

    131. Whew long time since i commented on this blog..anywho i read all of these comments and must say WOW…those that keep complaining about no voice Be happy you even get the game in english -_-……and please note there will eventually be a awsome anon later that will release a unofficial voice patch for the game so stop complaining about the 2000 sale and the price…for a game like this with gameplay yall should be grateful to even get it!

      • Koihime mousou a big part of it is the ero
        Frankly I can’t enjoy ero without voices
        just reading “AH AHA AHAHAHA AH AH” is not erotic.

        • well like I stated you can just play it till the voice patch is released which is whenever idk…and if you want play some other games till the voice patch is out.

    132. Why don’t they make an all-ages version of this? That way, you can market that version to more websites/places, in turn attracting more customers…

      • Because it costs money? And the people who are going to buy already know what they’re purchasing is an 18+ title or meant to be just that. The amount spent on making it into an all-ages game wouldn’t justify the handful of sales it would generate.

        And to quote Kirino: “You can only full appreciate the story if you play the original release.”

        • Hmm, I don’t know. Maybe there is an untapped market of people out there who would like anime games, but are unwilling to buy or play adult games.

          And why is the h-content needed to fully appreciate the story?

        • Can you prove that there’s an untapped market? Like I said before, the people who like these games are well aware of what’s involved in them and the vast majority don’t mind it. There’s little to gain from reducing one of these to an all-ages title just to appeal to the two or three percent that do mind it, especially given how much it would cost.

          Why the h-content? How about an easier question, why would you not expect mature content in a mature game?

          You’re still trapped in the mindset that somehow all animation is for kids and quite frankly, if you’re even barking at this tree, then you’re just flat out wrong.

        • Sometimes comments like these just annoy me by being so “either-or”… probably just as much as the poster above seems to have annoyed you in the same way.

          Prove that the market exists? Oh yes, I’ll pull the numbers of those “scared away” from ero games out of my magical hat. Because the 18+ market is so there, this whole “no-voice” debacle clearly shows that! ;)

          People who might like these games are never going to try them because they hear that all they are is porn, ven if that assumption is wrong. Calling those people “childish” is not going to persuade them to give the games a chance.

          Finding something less border-crossing in their taste and letting them have a go might lure them into the fandom though – and later they can decide whether or not they want to cross the 18+ barrier.

          Putting aside matters of taste and “maturity”, releasing all-ages games (originally so or not) will lover the barrier of entry for those who are not already “inside” the fandom. What is so wrong with that?

          (Disclaimer: I’m not just raging out on you, but this conflict in general… sorry ’bout that)

        • No, I totally understand, the problem is that it costs money to do so. There’s barely a market as it is, how will changing it to an all-ages version (a.k.a. take content out, an egregious amount of content at that) create a larger market? The lack of voices has already hurt potential sales, how will taking out the 18+ content from a game that kinda revolves around that selling point, bring in more sales?

          As it stands, Manga Gamer is trying this all-ages thing in Kira Kira and Higurashi, with DCIF on the way so it’s not like they’re not testing this market, but Kira Kira is still the only 18+ title that has gone all-ages so I think I’m pretty safe in assuming that progress has been slow…

        • Well, I guess one can only hope that they will continue to expand their range of games then. As you said, they still intend to release more all-ages games too…

        • Um, no I can’t, but can you prove that there isn’t? I wasn’t talking about people who are familiar already with h-games. And what would be the harm in making an all-ages version of an h-game? I wasn’t saying to make that the only version available.

          Why the h-content? Because that’s something that might be making these games more inaccessible to some people. This isn’t about expecting or not wanting “mature content” from a “mature game.” It’s more about making the games more accessible to a bigger audience. We’ve seen this happen in Japan where many h-game series have been made into mainstream anime tv shows which were possible because they cut out the hardcore sex content from them. While the anime market in the US or Europe isn’t as big as it is in Japan, it isn’t that far out of the question to assume that there maybe be a bigger, untapped group of people in the West who are interested in anime that would be interested in trying out games like these if they were more age appropriate to them or just more family friendly.

        • I can’t prove the non-existance of non-existant things. The burden of proof lies upon you as a believer to provide evidence for your claim.

          First, read my response to Mimi, that covers about 90% of what you just said.

          As I’ve been saying since the beginning, to make an all-ages version COSTS MONEY. If they are barely making a profit with the vanilla version sales, then how do you expect them to do it with an all-ages version, especially if both are available? People who buy vanilla are not going to suddenly decide to get the all-ages for shits and giggles…

      • Speaking as someone who plays eroge, I’ll say that I would play the non ero version provided that the non ero version has something that the original doesn’t. This usually means new routes for other characters.

    133. Hmm i tried the demo and all i can say is yes i am going to buy it. Played the japaneses version but i only could understand what they are saying when they talk but the words i can only understand 40% of what was written. hope 2000 ppl buy so the voices can be heard.

    134. No voices? No problem i will just wait till someone rips and makes a voice patch which will happen at some point.

      2000 copies or not there will be voices for the game :)

    135. That’s not really bad news, just…. background info. Bad news would be delays in production or setting back the release date (or worse, god forbid).

      I can understand their reluctance to jump in with both feet, as the US market (I know nothing of the UK or other markets) for anything involving or even referring to sex is…. let’s go with schizophrenic.

      The voices are just not a deal breaker/maker for me. I’ve played it in the original Japanese with the aid of a text hooker and machine translation and I get the gist of the story. To have it released in a language I can *read* is good enough for me to buy a copy, I’ve been “reading” Anime for years, and found it frequently changes the character if they get a director/actor who doesn’t quite get the original character. Reading the story and it’s subtler meanings in english while getting the tone of the scene from the original voice is just fine in my opinion.

      • Just a quick addendum- I don’t mean to imply that the American market is the only one to worry about, but let’s face it- it’s the biggest consumer base out there.

    136. I was doing research on when this game will be released, only to find out is to be released on year 2011 and a bad news along with it.

      I do wish to support in purchasing game but as a gamer, would really wish to have a hardcopy of games i buy. No offense really, it is just my opinion opinion to have something as a hardcopy instead of a digital copy.

      Just so you know, i do own a h-game (The Sagara Family) hardcopy (just to avoid any future flames on me)

      • I vought several games as downloads and have them on hardcopy – my PC has a DVD burner. I’m pretty sure MOST computers today have them. Inside the jewel case are printed hardcopies of my licensing and other pertinent info.

        • well, what i mean is actually buying a product, the dvd itself rather than as a digital copy.

          I know you can burn the digital copy onto the a dvd and put it in a case but I’m more towards in wanting a product that is manufactured and Sold by MangaGamers in a dvd case with the game, all designed & done by them.

          I’m not saying digital copy is bad, I just like the “original” distribution better compare to the digital distribution of games.

        • And I don’t intend to malign your preferences. I’ve got original DVD’s for Illusion’s Hako and Artificial girl 3, Studio E-Go! ‘s Men At Work compilation and a few others.

          As for Mangagamer setting up boxed DVD’s…. in a business with an already narrow profit margin, the equipment to run off large batches would likely put the project in the red, not to mention shipping costs and the risk of being wrong on the estimates of how many copies you’ll sell. As it is, I’m grateful to find licensed english language versions of ANY of these games.

      • It’s funny really. We seem to be the only market that’s demanding physical copies of games. Most major PC game manufacturers are moving toward download only, Manga Gamer is just “ahead of the curve”.
        I’m not getting at you specifically, I myself enjoy the extras that often come with physical copies and have bought physical copies of both Kira Kira and Higurashi, it just seems to be an interesting observation.

    137. Here’s another site that gives a look at Koihime Musou (PS2 version though) in case anyone wants a further look at it:

      http://www.ncsx.com/2008/112408/koihime_musou.htm

      On a side note, I’m glad to see Kazuto has a face

      • it is quite rare to see the main male lead to have a face. Hrm, eroge games i encounter mmm i don’t recall any of which have a face.

        On a sidenote, all spoilers, are those endings that i see near the bottom for kanu & banchou…=_=

    138. As if this is a huge problem. The original Japanese disk has voice so even mangagamer does not release a voice version, people still have a way to get the voice patch.

      Look at Fate stay night and Utawarerumono, the PC disk doesn’t have voice but the PS2 version does. Some people out there created a small extension that allows us to get the voice to work with the PC one.

      As long as Mangagamer releases the game, i bet there will be some unofficial voice patch for sure.

    139. Well, its not like I’ve ever cared for the voices anyway. Unfortunately, I doubt I could convince any of my friends to actually buy a copy, and if I told them, its more likely that they would either use or make a pirated version.

      Has my money though, and I haven’t posted before.

    140. you it would be better if you guys lower the cost of the unvoiced version (since it was originally intended to be voiced) and can later charge for the voice patch…
      that way you get more people to buy the since its cheaper and easily get to 2000 copies. And you wont’ lost anything since those people who bought the unvoiced version would be buying the voice patch. this would be way better than selling the unvoice at original price and making people who bought the game lose hopes because the voice patch never came out.

    141. i plan to buy this…

      only after a someone ports the voices from the JP version or 2k copies are sold, one or the two, i don’t like to take risk on stuff like this.

    142. Just weighing in: having played the demo, I’ll buy this game straight away. (I’d be preordering and paying now if I could.) But I’ll be waiting for a little time to play it to see whether the numbers are heading in the right direction, because I also don’t really replay games.

      Once I’ve worked through a bit of my backlog of Steam purchases, I’ll play Koihime, and hope that the voices are in by then.

      It’s conceivable I might pick up an unofficial voice patch if one turns up. But I’ll definitely be sending MangaGamer my payment first, because supporting them is what we all need to do for the industry to survive.

    143. I have a question. i have sort of missed it here, but if 2k buy this vn, do we get high quality original voices or low quality english voices?
      If they plan to do eng voices, could they also keep original ones and give us a choice eng/jap with a patch?

    144. I’ve quite a bit to say here, a bit wordy like a story. Thoroughness, in hopes of more or less expressing some info relevant to marketing data, and that others like myself exist. Possibly unnecessarily wordy, seeing as I’m late to the party and there’s already been a lot of input.

      I must first point out that I essentially get all my games through Steam, so right now I’m in some unfamiliar territory, and pretty uninformed. Wikipedia brought me to SiliconEra, which in turn brought me here (kudos Ishaan). I presume Recettear to be a bit of a milestone for the genre, seeing as that it got on Steam. I instantly bought the game solely to support the idea of getting more of such games onto Steam and the western market. I’ve a history of buy-only-to-support, it seems to me like a conceptually strong way to communicate with publishers (notable prior example was Street Fighter IV, not many fighters on PC, though that’s less relevant here). Keep in mind this is true with me having little money to spend, I’m jobless. It was a pleasant bonus that I was able to enjoy Recettear (didn’t play much after beating the main portion though, can’t call it a big hit to me personally). I was all the more excited that the team that released it kept the Japanese voices in without worrying “it’s not English”, I know other mainstream areas have quite an unpleasant history there. I relayed my enthusiasm over Recettear to my friends (got 1 friend to buy, I believe during a sale) particularly emphasizing doing it to support the area of games. (If someone can point me in the direction of why there’s not more on Steam, I’d appreciate the info)

      Even with knowing it isn’t actually true, I suppose I generally think of visual novels and related genres to be off in some distant unreachable land (or simply Japan?). I think that’s in part due to prices actually, the times I’ve looked it has been an unpleasant sight (the reason I don’t buy console games). And even the price here is a bit painful for me to look at. Also of relevance putting distance in the way is histories of censorship. A common harsh response someone may throw is “If you don’t like the middle man, learn the original language yourself,” which has actually become my path (there’s many reasons however I’ve been studying Japanese) (note I’m not leading this in a direction against MangaGamer, I don’t “know you” and can’t have reason to dislike). However that’s a slow process, even slower without any study-partners among my friends. Another part that motivates that, is I’ve seen some Japanese publishers progressively demonstrating policies pushing foreign markets further away, writing them off as something not worth investing in. Most alarming was when I visited some publisher’s site and was given an error “this site is restricted from your region” (which is the US, btw). So feeling alarmed, I feel casually waiting to achieve fluency in Japanese will have consequences due to absence of earlier mentioned “communication” with the publisher, as the western market may slowly get more closed out than it already is. So, I hunt for a starting point for me to enter into the genre, starting with anime I’ve seen. (I’d like to throw in a block about the pride I take in Crunchyroll’s modern existence, but I think I’m overdoing it as it is; though I do advise seeing about at least encouraging CR to do a survey that could put you in their scope)

      Now I like many others see the situation for this title as a contradiction to its intentions, removing voices would reduce sales, so much for hoping to sell well. I couldn’t really view it as a gamble either, having 3 seasons of an anime is quite a boost to chances of selling. And those that would be easily angered probably don’t take much to be provoked into pirating. But what do I know, no one ever releases any stats unless there’s something to brag about as to why they’re better than others. Plus I can see its impact on this situation. If today its sales after all this time was only 500, I wouldn’t be buying in hopes of pushing closer to that goal (still would have reason to consider though), whereas if it were 1800, I could more easily buy to help the cause. However I’m still likely to help, especially since meeting the goal sounds like a good image for the western market. (I can also promise to buy the first game you can manage to get on Steam, no matter how painful the price could get for me.) But the price and my limited money ultimately means I cannot just buy it on impulse, I still have to be sold on it. So I’ll start with the demo. I’ll probably advise my friends on the situation either way.

      Back on the note of learning Japanese, the only direct questions I have: is all the original Japanese text still present, in an option? And if so, is there much furigana?

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