Rinrin demands your opinion!Before I went too deep into Koihime Musou, I thought I would ask how you all would like to see certain things translated.
First off, considering the setting of the game, as a historical fiction retelling of the Three-Kingdoms, there are several terms that come up. The first I’d like to ask about is “Ougi”, or “secret art” to translate the term. Ougi represents a unique skill or technique belonging to a person’s martial arts style (or other combat styles depending on the story), often learned or developed through long, intense training. So, considering this is game takes place in a Chinese setting, would you like to see “Ougi” as “Ougi” or as something like “Secret art”? Secondly, each Ougi has a unique name to it as well, for example, Aisha’s 青龍逆鱗陣. Would you like to see the name transliterated out into “Seiryuu gekirin-jin”, or translated into it’s designation: “Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation”? I’ve seen attack names handled like this in both ways before. Viz I believe keeps “Getsuga Tenshou” for Ichigo’s attack in Bleach, but with a note whenever it first appears in each volume. So which would you like to see?
Next, are the names of the battle formations. Would you prefer to see these transliterated or translated in the game? For example: 鋒矢の陣 would be “Houshi no Jin”, or “Arrow Formation”.
I’d like to hear what you guys have to suggest before I get too far into it.
If it’s an absolute choice between them, I’d like to see all those words in English. For instance, Secret Technique: Translate Good English. However, what I’d prefer is the romanji with the English translation over it
i am ready for this game to come out i have wanted to play it since i first heard of the anime
can’t wait any idea when it will be ready for release
With the translations, I personally would be fine with either, so I can’t say much. However I am guessing others will have differing opinions on this (likely favoring for less translation)
Unrelated, I hate that I need to ask but I would feel better asking after the Soul Link incident. As of this time are there any plans to censor/edit/etc the content in this title?
No, there are no plans to censor Koihime Musou. Just remember:
Rinrin: “I’m a grown-up!”
I love you!
Personally I think translating stuff like this always comes across as a bit awkward, so it’s best to leave it untranslated with notes somewhere IMO. You should keep “ougi” and the like, too; not much point in having a unique setting if you localize the uniqueness out of it.
I agree with this. Better left untranslated with notes.
Leave the attack names and special attacks in romanized Japanese. You can have a translation note for those who aren’t familiar with them. They’ll sound awkward transliterated in English.
First thanks for asking our opinion on these matters. Now lets get to the main questions.
– The translation of Ougi may not be needed as long as at some moment (or in an added file with translation notes) an explanation of its meaning is given.
– Same thing for the name of each character secret art. Maybe adding the translated meaning of those attacks in small characters next to the the big original name like how the Japanese game uses furigana in order for people to know how to read those names.
– Now for the formation I believe that a complete translation of those formation is needed. Not really knowing the meaning behind the name of an attack may be ok but not knowing the name and thus meaning of a formation may prove to be a pain when playing.
Well, those are only my two cents feels free to take those into account or not. Anyway I’m really happy you are translating this game and I hope you are planing to translate Shin Koihime Musou as well one of these days.
PS: Please forgive me if my English has some huge mistakes in it as it is not my main language.
People will end up complaining either way, but personally I’d prefer if it was left untranslated with notes either in game when the term first comes up, or in separate pdf file.
I’d recommend translating them. Since the game is based on a Chinese legend, it would feel a little silly to me seeing Japanese all over the place. If you feel like going to the effort to figure out the Chinese pronounciations in pinyin, though, I wouldn’t mind that either :p
Incidentally, are you using on’yomi (Kan’u) or pinyin (Guan Yu) for the character names? Just curiosity; I don’t really feel strongly about it, though the latter does make it easier to keep straight who was who in the original.
We’ll be keeping the Japanese readings of the various character names, since this is also what similar series like Ikkitousen have done.
I guess it still strikes me as odd to see an English take on the pronunciation of the Japanese take on the pronunciation of a Chinese word. This is why I feel that if you wrote the thing originally in English, you wouldn’t use the Japanese readings, and thus a translation into English shouldn’t, either. If there’s say a French person’s name in some game, I don’t think it’s appropriate to transliterate the Japanese reading of that name.
I’ve thought of this as well, but I personally think there are a couple reasons to keep the Japanese readings:
1) The Koihime anime is already out, and already uses their names in Japanese, just as Ikkitousen did with it’s characters.
2) The game is fully voiced, so I think it would also be weird to read “Cao Cao” and hear “Sousou”, or read “Zhang Fei” and hear “Chouhi”.
You make a good point with 1); I had forgotten that CR streamed the show. I guess in that case, using pinyin for the names would confuse a good deal of people.
For 2), I understand where you’re coming from, but I also see this a lot from people who unfortunately know too little Japanese to understand the original material (not implying you are one of these people 😉 but know too much to be comfortable with just reading the English and ignoring the original material. These are probably the same people who want as much stuff in romaji as possible, or want people in a Western setting to speak with honorifics.
I don’t think it’d be a good idea to leave the terms and labels in Japanese or Chinese. You need to translate them. And since the names can be overlong or cheesy at times, you’re probably going to have to alter them as well. In general, when terms or labels have meaning they should be translated, except when the term or label is either very common, or it’s used so often in the game that it’s one of a small bank of terms you expect the user to learn (and a translation wouldn’t do it justice).
I reccomend keeping “ougi” and using the original Japanese name of a technique is fine as long as you have a translation note in pdf as usual. We can do a little reading. Also as you’ve pointed out, if manga keep the original names with a translation to the side or at the end, there’s no real problem. Another thing to consider is that some fighting games keep the original name for a technique.
This actually kind of reminds me of in Dragonball (also based on a Chinese tale) where Roshi insisted that his “lullaby” move that he used to put Goku to sleep during their match counted as amartial arts technique because it had a “fancy Chinese name”.
When translating something, it’s always better to ACTUALLY translate it. Obviously, translating the names of characters is a no-no, but when it comes to attack names, you’re better off calling it “Arrow Formation” than “Houshi no Jin.” If it’s something oppressively difficult or long, like something five syllables long translating into an entire goddamned sentence, then maybe a TL note might be better, but people will generally rather see their language in a game that’s translated into their language.
My opinion is that special moves and terms that are game universe-specific can be left transliterated (but with a translation and/or explanation when they first appear), since they usually sound awkward or ridiculous if translated literally. For example, translating Kirin (麒麟) as “Unicorn” in Twelve Kingdoms wouldn’t technically be incorrect, but it wouldn’t fit the theme or the mood of narration.
On the other hand, things that have a meaning that is related to game mechanics, like formations, elemental affinities and whatnot, should be translated (possibly not even literally, if literal translation is awkward or unintuitive) as it directly affects gameplay. It would be like transliterating “ゲ－ムを始まる”, instead of writing “New Game”.
“On the other hand, things that have a meaning that is related to game mechanics, like formations, elemental affinities and whatnot, should be translated”
I agree with this. I think fundamental game mechanics are one thing; attack names are entirely another. They don’t have to and indeed should not be handled the same way.
So translate game mechanics, don’t translate attack names (unless you can do it as an nicely placed note).
>Houshi no Jin (Arrow Formation)
Honestly, I could go either way about this. So, whatever you guys decide, I’ll be fine with. =)
I think it will be really hard to remember which formation is which if they are not translated. I’m sure some people will complain but I would prefer to have it fully translated.
I’m going to agree with the consensus so far that I’d prefer “Ougi” and attack names in Romanji with notes in brackets or in a pdf. I strongly believe that formations and the like be translated though, as something like “Arrow Formation” is universally recognized as an offensive stance in most video games while I’ve never once seen “Houshi no Jin” in any sort of translation, fan or commercial.
I think “Ougi” should be kept “Ougi,” and the attack names should be transliterated (with translation notes left somewhere like a .pdf file). Though I wouldn’t mind if the attack names were translated. I do think formation names should be translated as I think I’d have a hard time remembering what each formation is when I’m reading its transliterated version.
I usually prefer such specific terms to remain in their original language. “Ougi” is good, as well as each specific art name. Battle formation names, however, don’t seem that specific, at least in the example given.
If the engine supports ruby annotations (furigana characters), maybe it could use both a transliteration and the translation as it’s reading. I think that would be unobtrusive and satisfying for both parties.
Concerning what was brought up earlier, absolutely keep the Japanese reading of the names. Not because I particularly care about Japanese vs Chinese, but because Japanese *is what they’ll be saying*! There’s just no question here for me.
It depends on the technology you’re working with, but with attack names, leave them in Japanese and translate above it or something like that.
If you can ONLY have one or the other, still leave it in Japanese and translate in a supplementary file or something. Full translation for things like silly attack names can feel much too awkward.
It’s not necessarily a deal breaker but it could become an annoyance while playing.
well translating them would be cool for the ones who can’t understand jap…but keeping them intact is cool too…
I personally would love if you kept stuff like these in japanese since they always have a nice ring to it and by translating them in english you won’t always get the same efect….I mean “Seiryuu gekirin-jin” sound way better than the long and awkward “Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation” ….i mean this thing is long like hell compared to its japanese counterpart
Well, you are translating these games for English audiences, right? I do not like it if I am playing a supposedly translated game and do not understand half of what is going on, so in my opinion, it is better to translate them. Since many people playing your games do not know any Japanese at all, it will be far easier to remember Arrow Formation than Houshi no Jin, which is important if you have to use the attack in the game. Even for those who do know some Japanese, the words used for the attacks do not seem to be the most conventional ones.
You could, however, consider leaving longer names, such as Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation, untranslated with a translation note.
Or if you want to stay consistent, you could just shorten them, like for example just Imperial Azure Dragon Formation. I doubt anything meaningful would be lost this way, and only purists who have played the game in Japanese might complain, while most customers would be satisfied, I believe.
The attacks are hardly the most important part of the game, and there will probably be a lot of them, so I believe leaving them untranslated would just leave most players confused. Because they would not remember all the names of the attacks, they might not even know what is going on or which attack they want to use. The ones that would understand them, on other hand, are probably those who could play the game in Japanese anyway, so… it does not take a genius to do the maths, I suppose.
Translate all of the appropriate names into English! If they sound wonky in English then change them into something that sounds more natural, this is a localisation; innit?! Though I am pretty open minded about translations, just don’t change stuff like ‘drunken fist’ to ‘potion punch’, which is hardly appropriate.
The “Tales of” RPG series likes to translate the Hi-Ougis (秘奥義) of their series as “Mystic Artes”, just to throw that off out there. They’ve also used “Divine Skill” though.
Regarding Ougi (I’m too used to the term with Disgaea’s voices in Japanese and some other games) and the other names that were mentioned, I think that you should leave them in Japanese with notes translating them and/or explaining their meaning, if it’s needed.
An example of an anime dub that did something close to it, was the Portuguese version of Rurouni Kenshin, where they talked about a technique the first few times with the name completely translated to Portuguese and after a couple of episodes, the characters would always use the Japanese name, since everyone that was following the show would know it’s meaning.
I prefer translation. If I’m going to purchase a title for upwards of fifty dollars, I’d rather not see a story in English with tons of Japanese peppered throughout. It’s supposed to be a novel. Good novels make smooth reading; trying to remember a term, opening a PDF or in-game TIPS, or even just looking at a smaller text not even on the same line breaks concentration. It’s also nice to know off the bat what an attack is called when the time comes to use it.
I’m fine with using translation notes if something is culture-specific or *absolutely not* translatable.
Attack names, like everything else, sound awkward if you’re translating literally. If fan translation groups (e.g., insani, NNL) can translate, MangaGamer definitely could.
If you choose to compromise and have both the transliteration and the translation, have the transliteration on top, like furigana. 😀 (The game has voice, so I guess have the Japanese reading as regular text and Chinese original above it.)
…but all this is moot if most of the money will come from people who like pseudo-translation. If you end up going that route, I’m fine with it as long as it’s *consistent*.
I’ll reference Viz’s translation of Bleach as well. When they first started, they left about half the terms untranslated and the other half translated. No apparent rhyme or reason to that. Go all the way one direction or the other.
I prefer the name of the moves in japanese. The name in themselves are often useless and are based on nature words put together to sound cool in japanese. Which it does not in english :p.
I think it will be better left as it is ^^.
And as someone pointed out before hands. It’s kinda what makes the mood, the setting. No point in destroying that.
Not to mention a name is a name. It shouldn’t be translated.
Just like character name, most based on actual japanese word. And they do not get translated (thankfully, I remember playing this RPG where all the names were translated, so the characters were “Blue sky looking down on the white snow mountain” “Rising eagle from the southern plains” and stuff like that. Really ugly and annoying ^^;.
I agree with what seems to be the opinion of the majority: Transliterate Ougi and the names of the special attacks since they sound quite silly when translated – after all you wouldn’t translate 山口さん (just a random Japanese name) as Mr. Mountainmouth either – but use English for the formations (of course provided there is a fitting translation).
Concerning the names of the characters, leave them in their Japanese version, there’s nothing worse than what you hear being different from what you read, and I’m saying that as one of the few Europeans who’ve actually read the Three Kingdoms (in the English translations).
It’d be nice if we could have a list with the Chinese names in the translation notes. Generally I’m hoping for rather extensive translation notes (in a .pdf file) seeing how this a game with a historic setting that fills some 2500+ pages despite Luo Guanzhong’s rather brief style instead of the usual generic high school setting. (Nothing against high school settings though.)
1. As for “ougi” or “secret art”, either one works for me.
2. I prefer transliterating the special attacks. I find that they sound cheesy when translated into English. It’s cooler in Japanese.
3. The battle formations should be translated. Unlike the special attacks, the name does convey information about how it works.
Any term transliterated should be put in a pdf file. That makes it easy for me to print out all of them for easy reference while playing the game.
IMHO, non-gameplay elements, like your Ougi example, should be left as is, with a translation when it first appears (e.g. She had mastered the Ougi of Seiryuu gekirin-jin – the Shadow Art named Great Dragon etc.)
I myself dislike translations like “shadow art” because it clearly refers to a japanese notion that is somewhat cultural (like you’d say Geishas, Judo, Dojo, Origami etc.) and because “shadow art” sounds kinda lame.
Gameplay elements are a bit more tricky, because for those that don’t know the language it can be hard to memorize. Ideally you’d have the japanese in big bold characters, and the small translation underneath (kinda like furigana that interestly enough share a role not far from what we need here).
I like the separate translation note document idea — translate the moves (shortening if necessary to fit on screen) and then provide translation notes in a separate file for each move, detailing what it was in Japanese, and what the literal translation was. For people who simply want to *understand* and play the game, the (shortened?) English forms work. For people who are more curious, they can read the notes.
If I had to choose between the two then the romanized version. I’d still prefer the English translation in parenthesis or a separate translation notes file or something though.
I don’t mind leaving Ougi in Japanese, but individual attack and formation names should be translated… especially formations.
I know that authenticity to the original version is important, but it’s important to be able to understand and remember the game mechanics. Even if they sound cheezy, I’d much rather know what I’m doing without having to open a translation note document all the time.
I think a game is different from a manga in that you’ll be deciding on and using these moves on a regular basis, not passively reading them .
Speaking from experience, I think it ultimately boils down to which audience MangaGamer wishes to appeal to. At the risk of sounding preachy or condescending:
If you want to satisfy the hardcore fans (to the exclusion of everyone else), you should straight-romanize terminology and include a translation for each in the liner notes (inline first-mention notes are too easy to forget).
If you want to expand your user base beyond the hardcore niche, you should give the terms proper localizations. Not literal ones, mind you; I mean concise, fluid translations that roll off the tongue yet retain the intended meaning. This is by no means an easy task, but the results can be impressive when this is done right. Amaterasu proved this with their take on the species names in Sekien no Inganock.
…I think it’s pretty obvious which of the two I prefer. Considering the sometimes off-putting use of Japanese naming conventions and honorifics in your more recent titles, it’s quite clear which market you’re currently catering to.
To be honest, I wasn’t very fond of how mirror moon handled this very issue in Utawarerumono. The game has a distinct Ainu flavor to it, but many terms that should have been translated were left in Ainu – often, for things as straightforward as, “Archers, cover fire!”. Fate, on the other hand, used an approach I was very pleased with: German terms remained in German, but their English translations were provided as furigana. When the foreign influence of the work is vital, I think this is the best solution.
In my opinion, a proper translation should flow naturally; it shouldn’t have the reader flipping to an external glossary every few minutes to understand what’s being said or what’s going on. Nor should it make a (vaguely) familiar concept sound foreign (case in point: Viz’s decision to use “Shinigami” instead of “Reaper” in the Death Note dub).
I’m very pleased to see that MangaGamer is asking what its fanbase thinks of this issue. I should note, however, that there is a certain amount of sampling bias at work whenever they do so…
“If you want to satisfy the hardcore fans (to the exclusion of everyone else), you should straight-romanize terminology and include a translation for each in the liner notes (inline first-mention notes are too easy to forget).”
We’re agreed on that one.
“If you want to expand your user base beyond the hardcore niche, you should give the terms proper localizations.”
I’d consider that doubtful at best, I even remember there being some transliterated terms in Final Fantasy 8, which is a game practically developed for the western market (or at least as much it is for the Japanese one).
Aside from that I doubt that it would be a clever decision to try to expand in other markets on the expense of the core audience: As it is Mangagamer is still trying to recover the trust of the established VN audience which it had largly lost with it’s initial at times less then mediocre localizations (and it is going good, Soul Link’s translation was excellent and the decission to change the font is robbing critics of yet another of their favorite points of attack).
To suddenly expand into a more mainstream audience however, a huge and expensive PR campaign would be needed, which is something that I doubt MangaGamer – or anyone in the VN business for that matter – can afford. A more realistic scenario to broaden your audience is a kind of slow diffusion, from the current core audience to related groups like the anime and manga community and from there to more distantly related groups like the fans of more established Japanese genres (think Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem), for that however a firm grasp on your core audience is essential.
Given how much sales they have had so far, if they don’t expand beyond their current audience, their future seems quite bleak to me.
I’m talking about target audience, you’re talking about the actual customers, that’s a different matter altogether.
I’m saying that precisely *because* they haven’t yet secured their target audience trying to expand to a broader audience too fast might prove fatal.
I’m going to assume your definition of “audience” is “people who know about MangaGamer”. Therefore, the number of actual customers are going to be some percentage of their audience. To gain more customers, MangaGamer needs to either: 1) increase their audience or 2) increase the percentage of customers in their audience.
I suspect that for their current audience, it is going to be very hard to increase the percentage of paying customers in that audience by very much, because a lot of these people don’t feel that what MangaGamer is selling is worth the amount of money they would have to pay (there’s probably a very large body of people in this group who wouldn’t pay until the prices are below the point where MangaGamer could sustain itself). Furthermore, MangaGamer’s translation quality has been on the rise for some time now (well, at least for their story-oriented games). So, I believe that people must have made up their minds about translation quality already. In that case, I don’t see much that MangaGamer can do to increase the amount of sales in their current “target audience.”
Option 2 is obviously not very easy, *but* has the potential of large gains. No matter what you say about the anime/manga market not doing so hot in the economic downturn, the anime/manga market in English speaking countries is HUGE compared to the number of people who know/care about MangaGamer. If you can somehow tap that potential with MangaGamer’s all-ages division, then this would be the much better approach, in my opinion. Even if they lose a good chunk of their current customers, they will be offset by new customers from a *much* larger pool.
As I mentioned before, a name is a name.
There is no need to translate the name of a special move to understand game machanics IMO.
Just as “Seiryuu gekirin-jin” means “Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation”, “Sakura” means “Cherry Blossom”.
And yet I do not see (at least that often, thank god) Sakura translated into english because it’s a name.
There are tumes when a name is needed. But in case of character names, and Move (just there to look cool and all “special”) I believe it’s best to just romanize them.
If it’s simple terminology, I think it’s fine for a reader to learn 2-3 terms over the course of a game. Something easy for an English reader to pick up, like “Ougi” would likely become overly cumbersome if “secret art” were used in its stead.
As far as other things are concerned, whatever leads to the smoothest gameplay experience is preferred. If I immediately know what “Arrow Formation” means, it’s going to be more useful than esoteric romanji. For the moves themselves, I personally prefer dual labeling, either with overlaid text or Furigana style notation, however, I wouldn’t be displeased if one style or the other were chosen.
Okay, so it looks like the majority agreement is this:
1) Keep Ougi as Ougi
2) Translate formation names
3) Transliterate attack names, with a PDF note available. (The game doesn’t use furigana in the text so I’m assuming the feature’s not an option.)
Thanks everyone! It’s back to work on Monday!
For all these things (even Ougi), I think it’d be best to translate them. As this thread has demonstrated, though, the opinions run high in both directions and you’re not going to be able to satisfy everyone (unless you add a preference to switch between the two, ha!).
I think it’s best to find a term that works as a good translation in all circumstances where the term is used, even if that means it’s not quite a literal translation. I certainly think you should translate attacks, formations, and suchlike. (I think it’s perfectly possible to take this approach while still leaving in honorifics.)
I was recently watching Ookamikakushi from two different fansubbers. One group used terms like “Gods”, “fallen”, “divine judgement” and so on. The other used “kamibito”, “ochibito”, “katsusomethingorother” and so on. The first (with actual translated terms) was *much* easier to follow, even though I’ve studied enough Japanese to understand the non-translation the second group used.
“Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation” sounds like something a four year old would say. People that play these games tend to have an IQ high enough to appreciate foreign names. If people can’t be bothered to do a bit of research, then lets face it nothing is lost denying them a lame americanism.
Martial arts trainers don’t translate the names of their techniques (well from what I’ve encountered in the UK), foreign people don’t translate their names into the meaning of their names (Someone called Richard doesn’t translate that to whatever the word for King is in a foreign language.) Start translating technique names, you may as well start translating place names fron Peking to Boston, and character names from Rin to Kate.
Another thing is that the phonetic is shorter and easier to remember then some daft 8 word long sentance.
Looks like I’m in the minority here, but I’d prefer translated and paraphrased. Nothing wrong with including the Japanese as well, but think the main entry should be in english.
I can’t remember “Seiryuu gekirin-jin”, so can’t really associate it with an attack/formation/whatever. “Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation” is much too wordy and awkward. However, calling it “Azure Dragon’s Wrath” (Or “Imperial Dragon’s Wrath”, particularly if the character/group/whatever with the ability has some particular association with an emperor/empress/ruler) seems reasonable.
One other thing. I think phrase “secret art” sounds really, really bad if spoken by anyone above the age of 6. I think it’s fine to keep the term “Ougi” as it’s fairly short and simple, and presumably used fairly often, though just using “technique”, “art”, “mystic art”, “battle art”, “battle skill”, or something similar would be perfectly fine as well.
I remember playing Castle Fantasia 2, and they had a similar technique on their characters. The move was read as “Ougi” even on the English translation. It would probably be better to write it as “Ougi” since it sounds cooler imo ^^ Perhaps there should be a textfile with the release, explaining certain Japanese words, as I’ve seen a lot of games explaining words like “Sempai” etc in attached textfiles.
Formation and combat style names are not just for show, from the name you can guess what this style or formation looks like, so I suggest you translate them. But I’d like to see Ougi untranslated so it could be a unique feature of this game.
As a joke option, let’s translate Seiryuu Geikirin Jin as: Formation of Soldiers Named After the One Really Sensitive Scale of the Blue Dragon (Representing the East), Which Causes Irritation and Anger from Said Blue Dragon 😀
Ignore TDOMMX please. What he says would be the death of your company.
from the looks of it, this is a case where both options would please some and make others disappointed… though I’d prefer Ougi to remain as Ougi, there’s always another option available to us PC gamers…
Do a completely translated version by default, but include a zipped version of the script (or a patch) that would keep the Japanese names with the translation notes. If you don’t like to see Ougi translated into “Secret Arts” (or whatever you eventually decide to call it), simply unzip the file and overwrite the script into “Ougi”, perhaps with some translation notes with it as well…
That’s the only way i see for everyone to be happy ^^;
(except for the poor translator who’s workload just increased >_<; )
I prefer stuff like that to be actually translated into reasonable English, not just left as a mush of foreign nonsense.
If move names are left in a foreign language, I don’t know what they mean. I’m missing out on information that could let me learn more about the game’s setting and world.
I say keep the original words, it’s up to the reader to look up the words because there are a lot of subtle meanings behind them. Normally I wouldn’t buy something that’s just ruined with unnecessary translations, but since you guys are against that whole loli censorship bullshit I’ll end up buying it either way xD
Although you appear to have already made your decision, I’ll go ahead and add my input.
Names – As someone who has read the Three Kindoms, I’d love to see the original Chinese names. That aside, I don’t believe it would be a good idea. It would add dissonance between what you see and what you hear, which really breaks your submersion into the game.
Ougi – This is a bit tricky. I don’t feel particularly strongly on either side here. If you can find a particular translation that fits the text well, that’s fine. If not, Ougi is fine too — it’s a short word, and one that people can easily learn the meaning to. It also adds to the atmosphere.
Attack Names – This seems to be the largest issue here. I would rather see these transliterated myself. Just like Ougi, I feel it adds to the atmosphere. Having it written out in English, while a bit cheesy, is acceptable as well, so long as A) It’s not truncated, and B) It’s not “localized”. Transliteration or a normal translation is still consistent with the atmosphere of the game. Actually changing the name is a no-no. (i.e, don’t go from “Imperial Wrath of the Blue Dragon Formation” to “Dragon Thrust” or some such.)
Formations – These should be translated. A transliteration adds very little flavor, whereas a translations is much more accessible.
Disclaimer: Everything in this post is my own personal opinion. I do not claim it to be fact.
I’d like everything translated, as much candy as transliterations are for the eye, I want to know the attack’s meaning and it would be rather disturbing to me to switch between a PDF file with the translations and the game all the time until I can remember them. (It also feels like wasted time, to memorize the translations of attack’s in one game)
What the attack does is actually a separate box in the system files, and will be translated. So there’s no question as to whether or not you’ll know what a given attack does, the question was whether or not to transliterate the name.
I’d like to point out that from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what “ougi” even means, there’s a chance it’ll be very annoying to read all the time for that person.
The best compromise in my opinion is:
“Secret art: Seiryuu gekirin-jin”
1. The reader is informed what is going on (ie. it’s a secret art)
2. Literally translating the technique name into “Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation” may not be so healthy for the flow of the sentence. And in very bad cases, it can sound even way cheesy.
I like my translations translated, personally. If it has a good english equivalent here’s really no reason not to use it. As for attack names, I tend to prefer those translated as well, regardless of how sill they sound, because the english ones are easier to remember than their original language counterparts.
Anonymous above me brings a good point too, I guess I’d be happy with either his way or a complete translations. Not translating any of it seems sort of lazy.
I say translate it fully
Formations should be left in english. It’s a lot less confusing. Though, I think the move names should be left in romaji.
Ougi or secret art, neither matters to me. But as Anon mentioned, someone with a lower powerlevel may find it a bit annoying.
I just wish to see it done soon.Ougi is fine IMO.
I’d like both the translations and the orginal name in romanji, if possible. Otherwise, I’ll stick with the translation version.
Translate the formations, romanji the special attacks. Yes, it’s easier on some if they are translated as well but most attack names weren’t meant to be translated as said before, they sound very cheesy and can kill the attitude or flow of the things. Leave names and such as they are as well, and please please please don’t mess with the title. I love you guys translations but your naming sense isn’t the greatest. Thanks and good luck
Translate it. Otherwise would be too difficult to know what something does.
Being an avid player of the Romance of Three Kingdoms games, the first thing to think of is will it affect gameplay if its in Romaji rather than English and make it harder for the player to understand? For a game where you need to know what an attack does, this can be very important difference between frustration and playability.
Between the two, formations seem more important aspect so those should probably be translated. For the ouji, I think using a combination suggested above of “Secret Art” and the romaji for the names is probably fine. That makes it understandable to everyone and it is ingrained enough in our culture that secret arts don’t always have to have English names.
In my opinion, it would be best to change everything to english. People would have to look up what some things mean in order to understand it. The only exception is if they shout it out during the battle. For example, in “Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier”, all the spoken attacks keep their Japanese name. While many people would want some of these to stay Japanese, it would somewhat handicap people who may not have watched anime or read manga before with things like “Ougi” and Houshi no Jin”.
This game is completely voiced, any and everything done by the female cast has a voice so that’s no problem. And the only times you see an special attack is when you’re choosing a character or in battle. Also, there won’t be any such handicap for I seriously doubt anyone who doesn’t read manga or watch anime will find or play this game the only ones who would be handicapped are those who like over-translated and completely localized works…which I can’t stand either.
i think it should be in english.
romanized japanese doesn’t help understanding it one bit and i’m sure that most of us who understands japanese or what Houshi no Jin means would have played the japanese version already…
i say everything should be kept in romanized Japanese. they’re names, it’s nice to know the original names of things. if possible it would be nice to have an option to switch between the English and Japanese, or have them both listed. EX: Japanese title (English translation). personally i only want the text to be translated to a form i can understand, and would greatly appreciate a function to listen to the original Japanese voice-overs with English text. i think it’s much easier to figure out what everything means in English if you have the Japanese than it is to figure out the original Japanese from the English. if you don’t know Japanese just download JWpce at this website http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/japanese.html and translate it on your own. the less that is changed from the original the better in my mind.
Attack names: Romanji with english translation please. You could even include it in those awesome documents you guys release with each game.
Formations: Please, please, please, I beg you, translate these into english, especially if there are tons of them.
Rlly lookin forward to this epic game 🙂
ty for translatin this awesome game :>
Whats the status of translation ?:>
well i think (personally) the way yo guys translated shuffle was quite perfect (but i think it wouldve been better if you dint translate the races gods and devils well nyways “keywords” should be expressed in japanese romaji while the normal non essential words are properly translated also there were some typos in the shuffle game (which i hope you improved)
otherwise the only reply i can give such a sweety like rin rin is
do what you believe is helpful
I prefer Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation!
i want to know what they mean! plz just translate not just put in romaji T_T
o and maybe write Imperial Wrath of the Azure Dragon Formation and put romaji in small font over top of the text like furigana..?
I played the trial demo of the game already and have a few comments about the translations.
First of all I noticed a few grammar errors, but nothing major. As for the actual dialogue it flowed very well.
Some problems I did have with the dialogue were:
1) I know very few Japanese words so even terms like bokken took me a little time to figure out.
2) The use of medieval dialogue seemed somewhat out of place in ancient China. I’ve also seen every episode of the anime and have never seen medieval dialogue used.
And as for the Japanese to English transition, it was good for the most part.
The positives were:
1) The Formation names were translated very well and the Formation Selection screen, in my opinion at least, actually looked better than its Japanese Counterpart.
2) Keeping the Japanese names of the characters from the anime was a good move, again in my opinion.
3) Ougi was a new word for me, but I liked the sound of it, so I’d like to see it kept. Though I guess Ki, Chi, or even Aura would be more common Westernized terms for it.
The negative was that the various Ougis’ were only transliterated in a PDF file, instead of being translated on screen.
Though I did appreciate that Aisha’s transliteration chose to use Green Dragon instead of Azure Dragon, since her weapon is actually green.
Ougi is more like saying technique or skill in westernized terms. And yeah, Aisha’s blade is suppose to be the Green Dragon Blade…does she really say Azure? Wow, script mistake?
The 青 in 青龍偃月刀 (Green Dragon Crescent Blade) in Chinese isn’t easily translated into English. The term is often used as a descriptor for jadeite which was a very precious mineral in Ancient China. Since jade comes in a variety of colors, including blue, the term 青 is synonymous with blue as well. In modern Chinese, since jade isn’t often available, 青 is popularly used to describe the blue of the sky, a clear, deep blue. In English, this deep blue tone can be described as azure so it is sometimes translated as azure.
I would argue that if you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty, that the most accurate translation for 青 would be teal, but in this situation where her weapon is made of jade, teal wouldn’t be accurate so green is a far more fitting
Also, in the case of Koihime and Kan’u, the reference is to one of the more divine dragons, specifically the Jade or Azure dragon as it’s been called in different translations. It can also be read as Qing Long and in both Chinese and Japanese it is associated with the East, while the Japanese considers it a guardian. In contrast is Chouryou’s weapon, which mimics Kan’u’s down to all but color after she first meets Kan’u, also posses a similar name but with the kanji 蒼 instead, meaning more ‘Blue Dragon’ but still very much a reference to the same mythological entity.
I chose to use Green Dragon and Blue Dragon over Jade or Azure because many more English translations have rendered Guan Yu’s weapon as ‘Green’ than the other options, and thus going by color, Blue would be more suited for Chouryou.
Thank you to Sister of Scarlet, gaudy6523, and kouryuu9 for answering my questions.
I saw Chouryou’s dragon blade in an image for the game and it wasn’t blue, the dragon’s head was black.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to call it the Black Dragon?
There’s a black dragon in Chinese legend who existed alongside the Green Dragon.
Xuanlong, the Black Dragon spirit is the dragon king that dwells within the depths of the mystic waters.
The Black Imperial Dragon is also the guardian of the kings and the palaces.